The goat debate is settled

If I were looking to pick holes in Messi's resume, I'd argue that he's always played for the best teams and had a great supporting cast around him.
I compare that to Maradona, who went to a nothing club like Napoli, who'd never won Serie A before, and made them in to champions.

While doing it with an unfashionable club counts for something in my book, I don't really buy this as an argument against Messi. In the last few weeks, I've been critical of the Spanish style of play, both now and when they won the WC in 2010. Despite the likes of Iniesta, Xavi and Villa being on the team, they ground out a world cup victory with a series of 1-0 wins. The philosophy was not so very different to the free-scoring and entertaining Barca side, so what was the difference? Messi. So, yes, the man was surrounded by great players at his club, but look at the difference it made when he wasn't there.
 
Frozen Horse said:
If I were looking to pick holes in Messi's resume, I'd argue that he's always played for the best teams and had a great supporting cast around him.
I compare that to Maradona, who went to a nothing club like Napoli, who'd never won Serie A before, and made them in to champions.

While doing it with an unfashionable club counts for something in my book, I don't really buy this as an argument against Messi. In the last few weeks, I've been critical of the Spanish style of play, both now and when they won the WC in 2010. Despite the likes of Iniesta, Xavi and Villa being on the team, they ground out a world cup victory with a series of 1-0 wins. The philosophy was not so very different to the free-scoring and entertaining Barca side, so what was the difference? Messi. So, yes, the man was surrounded by great players at his club, but look at the difference it made when he wasn't there.
Click to expand...
This: big name though they may be Barcelona weren't one of the European greats before he joined (Having won half the amount of European cups Nottingham forest had) and they aren't exactly amazing now. He elevated them to another level.
 
Frozen Horse said:
If I were looking to pick holes in Messi's resume, I'd argue that he's always played for the best teams and had a great supporting cast around him.
I compare that to Maradona, who went to a nothing club like Napoli, who'd never won Serie A before, and made them in to champions.

While doing it with an unfashionable club counts for something in my book, I don't really buy this as an argument against Messi. In the last few weeks, I've been critical of the Spanish style of play, both now and when they won the WC in 2010. Despite the likes of Iniesta, Xavi and Villa being on the team, they ground out a world cup victory with a series of 1-0 wins. The philosophy was not so very different to the free-scoring and entertaining Barca side, so what was the difference? Messi. So, yes, the man was surrounded by great players at his club, but look at the difference it made when he wasn't there.
Click to expand...
Yup. I think it's a pretty lazy argument to be honest. And Iniesta and Xavi were incredible players obviously.

But Messi's numbers without those lads speak for themselves.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1112305122955194368
 
Xavi & Iniesta didn't need Messi - Spain's trophy cabinet would suggest that.

Messi didn't need Xavi & Iniesta - above stats, plus the World Cup/Copa wins would suggest that.

But put them all together, in their prime, and you got the greatest football team there has ever been between 2008-2012.
 
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