The end?

There is no way that any of this is some sort of "cunning plan" from Putin. Shoot down seven or your own planes, dig up your roads and put troops on the streets of the capital as some sort of ruse to flush out the waverers or to dishearten the Ukrainians?
Don't forget the part of the master plan that Wagner will now march on Kyiv now they are only a 150 or so mile away.
This would be a bad idea for Wagner for several reasons! So unless they where sent as a suicide squad that isn't going to happen.
 
Don't forget the part of the master plan that Wagner will now march on Kyiv now they are only a 150 or so mile away.
This would be a bad idea for Wagner for several reasons! So unless they where sent as a suicide squad that isn't going to happen.
That's not even the wildest explanation that I have read online!
 
That's not even the wildest explanation that I have read online!
I'm not surprised in the slightest though, I said in a post this morning expect a few days of gaslighting, rumours, lies, propaganda and deflection. It will be a few more days of these type of things yet until something can rather be confirmed or some other event happens to take the focus from this one. It seems to be the way of modern warfare and the social media influence, it's no coincidence that all the official military departments and figures have social media accounts. It is a perfect way of spreading disinformation and sewing doubt. It is a modern version of the leaflet drops during WW2.
 
Wagner will attack Ukraine from Belarus. The last 24 hours have been a total set up.

Then why not just send Wagner troops to Belarus then and avoid the coup altogether ? Plus American satellites will see Wagner troops amassing so again the element of surprise is gone

I’m sorry but I’m not buying this was a setup . Putin has been shown to look weak from this and that’s the last thing he wants . If this was a fake coup he will have attempted to make himself look a lot stronger than he did .
 
Wagner will attack Ukraine from Belarus. The last 24 hours have been a total set up.
If they do attack Ukraine from Belarus in a "Blitzkrieg" type attack towards Kyiv they will fail and fail In a spectacular fashion. Between Belarus and Kyiv is awful terrain for that type of attack, too many bodies of water, swamps and forest, not enough main roads which can support heavy equipment look how it failed at the start of the war and that was before Russia lost its best troops and before Ukraine was supplied with superior artillery and weapons and heavily fortified the main highways in that direction and the northern border in general.
A bigger worry would be a special forces type operation with a few very small skilled groups to attack/sabotage the Dam at Kyiv or one of the nuclear powerplants in north western Ukraine it would still most likely fail but would be more realistic than a full rapid march on Kyiv.
 
Then why not just send Wagner troops to Belarus then and avoid the coup altogether ? Plus American satellites will see Wagner troops amassing so again the element of surprise is gone

I’m sorry but I’m not buying this was a setup . Putin has been shown to look weak from this and that’s the last thing he wants . If this was a fake coup he will have attempted to make himself look a lot stronger than he did .
Not a fake coup. Prigohzin felt marginalised by the efforts from the MOD to extract his mercenary soldiers and move them into the regular army. This on top of the heavy losses he has taken in men, partly due to the regular army starving his men of ammunition, pushed him over the edge. HE lost his cool, and decided to act against them. Hoped that Putin would understand it was against them. When Putin came out with the knife in the back statement, Prig realised he was in deep crap. He was offered a way out, and took it. He chose not to cut off his nose to spite his face. It's only his long term relationship with Putin that has seen him alive, although who knows for how long as he has betrayed other people and Putin isn't the only one with assassins on speed dial.

There is an assumption here that Wagner are being sent to Belarus? Is that true or is it just Prig?
 
There is an assumption here that Wagner are being sent to Belarus? Is that true or is it just Prig?
In all honesty the amount of information and especially conflicting information today has been almost impossible to separate plausible from unrealistic.
My guess to the question would be probably some of them. The thing is the mercenaries themselves probably don't know what is happening at this moment.
I would think some will join other mercenary companies or the Russian Army, some will possibly fight against Russia(if they still feel aggrieved after the battle of Bakhmut or friends they lost), some might say F this I'm going home and leave the military. Others could possibly go join Prigozhin in Belarus bit that would also depend if there was actually contracts for them or if they could get a better contract from other PMG's and how loyal they actually are Prigozhin.
 
So what of the reports that hostages have been taken from Prigozhin and other Wagner families members by the FSB to guarantee their behaviour.
 
Not a fake coup. Prigohzin felt marginalised by the efforts from the MOD to extract his mercenary soldiers and move them into the regular army. This on top of the heavy losses he has taken in men, partly due to the regular army starving his men of ammunition, pushed him over the edge. HE lost his cool, and decided to act against them. Hoped that Putin would understand it was against them. When Putin came out with the knife in the back statement, Prig realised he was in deep crap. He was offered a way out, and took it. He chose not to cut off his nose to spite his face. It's only his long term relationship with Putin that has seen him alive, although who knows for how long as he has betrayed other people and Putin isn't the only one with assassins on speed dial.

There is an assumption here that Wagner are being sent to Belarus? Is that true or is it just Prig?
Surely he didn’t think he was going to topple Russia with the (reported) 25,000 men, albeit a few western commentators thought he might?

Did he think the mainstream Russian military would switch sides and join him?

Does not add up.
 
This business about Putin being dead, surely Biden and allies would know and not be pretending he is still in position?
This thread is one of my favorite daily reads. One thing that I find incredible is that the world is unsure if Putin is still alive. Surely
with all of the intelligence, spies etc The West must know the truth !
Apparently the US Navy had confirmed that the Titan sub had imploded an hour after the fact.

We still had the best part of a week where search and rescue operations were headline news with a countdown of how many hours of oxygen were left etc.

They knew they were dead but the pantomime continued.
 
Apparently the US Navy had confirmed that the Titan sub had imploded an hour after the fact.

We still had the best part of a week where search and rescue operations were headline news with a countdown of how many hours of oxygen were left etc.

They knew they were dead but the pantomime continued.
I think you might have the wrong thread :unsure:
 
I don't generally pay much attention to the words that they say(subtitles 😂)on this propaganda programme and try to read between the lines of the general narrative they are trying to push.
I think they where genuinely scared, I think that fear has turned to anger and now they are laying the foundations for some of the Wagner group officers and possibly some of the Russian military top brass as Scape goats.
 
Wagner will attack Ukraine from Belarus. The last 24 hours have been a total set up.

I’m hearing that Wagner are not going to Belarus, Prigozhin is. He’ll have his body guards but the majority of Wagner in Russia are going to be assimilated into Russian military/other Russian controlled mercenary groups or disbanded altogether. Prigozhin will manage Wagner in Africa etc from Belarus.

As with much of this war we’ll just have to wait and see.
 
I think it was Anton Gerashenko that mentioned that it cost around $350million a month to run the Wagner PMC. I honestly think that the money will dry up for Prigozhin, and that would mean the end of Wagner group, and as said previously it is either assimilated into the RU army or they join other pmcs. Although I did see a video of Russian paras, execute a Russian soldier that sided with Wagner in this revolt. I'd guess more of that will be going on.
 
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