The end?

r00fie1 said:
What sources are they, then?
Where do they "originate from"?
Where do you get your information from?
What has the former "USSR" got to do with it?
Please don't make assumptions.
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I’m not about to trail back through all your posts, but I have questioned your links on more than one occasion, including before I left Russia if memory serves. Nor am I the only person to suggest that some have come from organisations with vested interests. I get my own opinions from what I’ve seen in the places I’ve lived and travelled, the people I know/knew and a few commentators who I trust from years of output.

Russia is the successor state to the USSR and it acts today in many of the same ways the Soviet Union did, with a renewed passion for its Tsarist and imperialist past. My point is that neither nation is to be trusted as we have more than enough evidence to be wary. I realise that Putin is also wary of the west and acts on his assumptions to the extreme.

r00fie1 said:
I'm sure we all agree we want both sides to get around a negotiating people to stop innocent civilians from being bombed and killed - whether it's Ukraine, Russia, Palestine or the West Bank.
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Absolutely agreed. I had to up and leave a country I have deep affection for and it hurts every day this war continues, but I’ve seen life in Russia and neighbouring states and I believe Ukraine has to come out of this with a negotiated settlement closer to their terms than Putin’s.

r00fie1 said:
Both wars are connected because it involves my country - England [UK]. To Ukraine, we supply weapons to contain and repel an aggressor.
To Israel, we [along with West Germany / France / The USA, et al.] arm an aggressor to murder and torture innocent civilians. Why the difference?
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I’ve said it before on this thread but I don’t see the logic in connecting these conflicts, they have different origins in different regions. I also know far less about the Palestinian conflict so I’m not willing to stick my neck out, same with Myanmar, DRC, Sudan etc. Although supporting Palestinians against a ruthless land grab does have some parallels. I’m not saying the western stance to nations is always right or fair, but with Ukraine I believe it is and shouldn’t have to be either/or - I can support both Ukrainians and Palestinians in the face of aggression.

r00fie1 said:
I rely on "reports" [telephone usually] from my Jewish contact in Tel Aviv and my Christian Palestinian friends in the West Bank. They tell it as it is on the ground. Are those sources OK?
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I’m sure they’re fine, I have no way of knowing and I don’t post or comment on Palestine/Israel for the reason I stated above. I post on this different conflict because it has directly affected me and people I know, hence why I get a bit chippy when I feel people make allowances for Moscow whilst seemingly denying the agency of Ukraine or other nations in their stance against their former oppressors.
 
I'm not sure what Palestine has to do with this thread. As far as I am aware you have the full support of others in hoping that ends too. Yes it is genocide, yes it shouldn't be happening, yes the west shouldn't be supporting Israel. But that's a different argument. Start another thread but on the whole you would just be agreeing with yourself because any right thinking wants an end to bloodshed in all conflicts.

Every conflict will have a psychopath at the head of it, they will have narcissistic traits. You cannot reason with them and they have no comprehension or compassion for the suffering of others in their quest for ultimate purpose, whatever that might be.

Cleansing of Jews/muslims from an area or expanding a countries borders and influence etc.
 
Keeping it on topic.

The terms (AFAIK)


1. The (Ukrainian) Armed Forces must completely withdraw from the Donetsk and Luhansk regions,

2. The Russian Federation will transfer the Zaporizhzhya NPP to Ukraine,

3. Ukraine should not block the supply of water to Crimea,

4. Ukraine should enshrine non-aligned status in the Constitution and not join NATO or another alliance,

5. Crimea is defined as a special demilitarized territory with dual subordination,

6. USA lifts sanctions on Russia,

7. The Kremlin is ready to discuss the transfer of the Zaporizhzhia and Kherson regions,

8. The Russian Federation has nothing against Ukraine joining the EU,

9. Ukraine should enshrine in the Constitution the concept of a "peacetime army" consisting of 350,000 and have a certain list of weapons. In particular, it will not be able to have more than 125 combat aircraft of any type.


For Ukraine

1. For obvious reasons not acceptable, there might though be a bit of leeway in regards of a return to the pre 2022 "border". This is though entirely up to Ukraine to decide if that would be acceptable.

2. Obviously acceptable.

3. Acceptable.

4. Obviously not compatible with point 8., nor the will of the Ukrainians. There might be a possibility of delaying NATO 10 years, but that would be about it.

5. How in the name of feck do they imagine that this would be possible to achieve in practice?

6. Possible over time and in relation to Russian compliance to any peace agreement, this or another.

7. Definitely doable.

8. Weird since this most definitely would make Ukraine "alligned" to the Western camp.

9. This is incredibly surprising. It is a very large standing army, and with it seeming to include all the arms already on order and in possession of Western nick... very generous. Same really with the 125 Combat aircraft since Russia seems to be accepting ANY aircraft in that number, let us just say that 125 F-35s would make it possible for Ukraine to crush Russias air force.
With that type of Army Russia would not have a chance of coming back for more later, especially since they are writing "Peacetime Army" it would enable Ukraine to have a reserve of around 1.5 million soldiers.

Ukraine would obviously also have its demands .... ie reparations from seized Russian assets etc


I really don't know whether this offer will fly, but it is certainly (unlike previous "peace offers") has potential.
 
r00fie1 said:
Fair enough. Some things we will have differences of opinion on, and maybe they will change as situations change. Some things we agree on. I see a direct link between both conflicts, but thats just my opinion. I hope we can all add to the conversation.
(y)
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I think we all want peace and there will be a negotiated settlement, but when that is and who it favours is for others to decide, I don’t believe this is a conflict NATO or the US wanted to see begin so I place my trust in the Ukrainians choosing their own destiny- I only hope it leaves them feeling safe whilst providing Russia a route to become the peaceful and welcoming nation it should be (they are, after all, exhibiting tendencies not uncommon to European nations as their empires crumble).

For clarity I was only talking about questioning posts on the Russia/Ukraine conflict and I don’t recall taking issue on any other subject. 👍
 
borolad259 said:
Keeping it on topic.

The terms (AFAIK)


1. The (Ukrainian) Armed Forces must completely withdraw from the Donetsk and Luhansk regions,

2. The Russian Federation will transfer the Zaporizhzhya NPP to Ukraine,

3. Ukraine should not block the supply of water to Crimea,

4. Ukraine should enshrine non-aligned status in the Constitution and not join NATO or another alliance,

5. Crimea is defined as a special demilitarized territory with dual subordination,

6. USA lifts sanctions on Russia,

7. The Kremlin is ready to discuss the transfer of the Zaporizhzhia and Kherson regions,

8. The Russian Federation has nothing against Ukraine joining the EU,

9. Ukraine should enshrine in the Constitution the concept of a "peacetime army" consisting of 350,000 and have a certain list of weapons. In particular, it will not be able to have more than 125 combat aircraft of any type.


For Ukraine

1. For obvious reasons not acceptable, there might though be a bit of leeway in regards of a return to the pre 2022 "border". This is though entirely up to Ukraine to decide if that would be acceptable.

2. Obviously acceptable.

3. Acceptable.

4. Obviously not compatible with point 8., nor the will of the Ukrainians. There might be a possibility of delaying NATO 10 years, but that would be about it.

5. How in the name of feck do they imagine that this would be possible to achieve in practice?

6. Possible over time and in relation to Russian compliance to any peace agreement, this or another.

7. Definitely doable.

8. Weird since this most definitely would make Ukraine "alligned" to the Western camp.

9. This is incredibly surprising. It is a very large standing army, and with it seeming to include all the arms already on order and in possession of Western nick... very generous. Same really with the 125 Combat aircraft since Russia seems to be accepting ANY aircraft in that number, let us just say that 125 F-35s would make it possible for Ukraine to crush Russias air force.
With that type of Army Russia would not have a chance of coming back for more later, especially since they are writing "Peacetime Army" it would enable Ukraine to have a reserve of around 1.5 million soldiers.

Ukraine would obviously also have its demands .... ie reparations from seized Russian assets etc


I really don't know whether this offer will fly, but it is certainly (unlike previous "peace offers") has potential.
Click to expand...

It is encouraging, though clearly some non-starters.

I'd rather Ukraine waited, since the direction of travel is only going one way. If the Democrats replace Biden then certainly. People are dying, but long term more lives might be saved by waiting for Russia to collapse rather than re-stock.
 
Ukraine said "No thanks"... in an official response (from Z and Kuleba)

"Ukraine will not give up any land in a peace agreement.
Note that not a single other point was mentioned.
Behind the scenes some points can be accepted, and some not, and the Russian proposal is treated as an unusually meek starting point for being Russia.

Kuleba came with an interesting notion.
He believes that the "shared custody" of Crimea is due to the Russian middle-class being afraid of not being able to go on vacation there, something that would make any Russian leadership incredibly unpopular.
So, he suggested that "Russian water toe-dipping in Crimea" could be a Ukrainian concession later on, obviously with Ukraine holding Crimea fully.

In the end there will be peace negotiations.
Russia seems to want it prior to going broke.
Ukraine want it due to being tired and in pain, more psychologically than materially.

Heck, even China is turning on the screws now, and according to the Kazakh's that just hosted a meeting where Xi and Putin talked, says that China was very clear on it being time to pack up and go home.

In Russia the National Bank hosted a conference on the state of the Russian economy.
The topics ranged from "bleak" to "****ed up".
Especially Elvira Nabiullina was outspoken about how bad things is.

And Russia just labelled the producer of Moskovskaya and Stolichnaya Vodka as an Extremist Group supporting Ukraine, and nationalised the entire shebang.
They also arrested the owner for being an extremist supporter of Ukraine.
This caused a lot of Sad Russian Noises, they know that this means that their vodka will become even more expensive."
 
Some news in brief.

Russians all but removed from Vovchansk now. Forces there not being replaced.

Russia seems to have shifted focus to the SE quadrant ... Donetsk region. Which makes sense given their peace demands.

Budanov disappointed not to be dropping "the bridge" for political reasons... so our man suggested some targets on a certain long East to West railway line might actually be a more useful target. Lo and behold.... some partisans took a section of it out. Expect more of that.

Eyes on Kherson ... this is what it's like to be on the wrong end of Tank Girl (It is significant)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1809140711863746578
 
And for those who think the Russian economy is doing just dandy despite sanctions....
Here's a Russian economist ... he waffles, but you can jump to 6.55 in for the start of real content

 
borolad259 said:
.. this is what it's like to be on the wrong end of Tank Girl (It is significant)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1809140711863746578
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The irony of one of the guys on the boat(?) wearing a Nirvana t shirt.

‘Nirvana’ “It is used to refer to the extinction of desire, hatred, and ignorance and, ultimately, of suffering and rebirth. Literally, it means “blowing out” or “becoming extinguished,” as when a flame is blown out or a fire burns out.”

Not sure they’re going to be ‘extinguished’ any time soon, a rapid mass conversion to Buddhism may be required.
 
borolad259 said:
And for those who think the Russian economy is doing just dandy despite sanctions....
Here's a Russian economist ... he waffles, but you can jump to 6.55 in for the start of real content

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How the heck are the Russian people affording this, those increases are crazy. You can surely only squeeze the finances so much.
 
Nero80 said:
How the heck are the Russian people affording this, those increases are crazy. You can surely only squeeze the finances so much.
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Many of them can't. Most are poor. As he says, their world per capita income ranking is 77th or something.

Not sure how much frontline news we'll get for the next few days. General Sneaky has sneaked off to DC for the NATO conference. Very annoying pour moi .... as he hasn't finished his homework!!!
 
Sneaky has been inspecting US Marines today, somewhat jet lagged. Some ceremonial obligation apparently.
Here in his earlier sneaky days.

sneaky.jpg
 
Tank Girl and Little Z met John Healey in Odesa today. The new government appears to be even more committed to supporting Ukraine than the last .... something that has been something of a major relief to "our friends" on the ground. Some major new pledges made today. Healey made a big impression upon TG and Little Z. Sneaky is a little miffed that he missed out... but thinks he'll probs meet him in DC.
 
borolad259 said:
Tank Girl and Little Z met John Healey in Odesa today. The new government appears to be even more committed to supporting Ukraine than the last .... something that has been something of a major relief to "our friends" on the ground. Some major new pledges made today. Healey made a big impression upon TG and Little Z. Sneaky is a little miffed that he missed out... but thinks he'll probs meet him in DC.
Click to expand...
Lammy is making the right initial visits and given todays election results may even stop off in Paris on the way back before he heads over to DC

How is everyone getting to visit Odesa before me ☹️
 
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