Well, Alves played in the Premier against proper defences. He had a bad spell but was atleast in the right position to miss. Assombalonga was just ***** in a poorer league. And seemed to think it was funny.
The Afonso alves myth
- Thread starter Jedi boro
- Start date
TeessideCleveland
Well-known member
He had 3 ok seasons - not worth the money but that's the same as Alves - and then just dialled it in for the last one.
He was embarrassed when laughing - same as Dwight Gayle, but several on here thought we should sign him
Alves didn't play well against Premier defences. He didn't choose the fee - like Assombalonga didn't choose the fee for him
Both players we overpaid for
Wistow_Red
Well-known member
This entirely. As SSSY says he needed clever through balls, which gave him his 5 goals in 2 games but after that we tried to use him like Viduka. He was on his own up front and we used to ping balls up to him to hold, like we did to Viduka, which he couldn't do and it drained his confidence massively.
Ironically in Viduka's first season he was pilloried as we kept playing balls into the channels or behind the defenders for him to run on to which was never his game. Once we sussed out how to use him, he was the best CF I've seen at the club. We never worked out how to get the best out of Alves after the two Manchester games, which was a crying shame as he would have got goals.
JustTheGent
Well-known member
That Alves signing was absolutely dreadful and crazy. It was the equivalent of walking up to the roulette wheel with a load of cash thinking you're going to walk away in profit, despite the odds being against you.
The signing was pre-data science and analysis days, well before there was any real knowhow on how to apply it correctly and quantify it accurately. Some were doing it intuitively, without actually pinning down the data. But Boro were like a deer in the headlights with this (and still are). It was mugs money - and Alves had certainly found his mug.
As some of you know, I have connections with some of the pioneers in the sports data science field. That Alves signing has been back tested using several different formulas and it never returns well. There's all sorts of things that go into it. But just on a basic level, there was a trend for Brazilian players to flop after initially showing promise. This would often happen after securing a big money move. The Boro move was worth over £10million to Alves, his job was likely done before he kicked a ball. Seriously, what was his motivation and what was he playing for? To secure Boro a mid-table position?
The blueprint for these types of things was Ronaldinho. A player who had it all and seemingly had everything to play for. But even he was done by the time he was 28.
The signing was pre-data science and analysis days, well before there was any real knowhow on how to apply it correctly and quantify it accurately. Some were doing it intuitively, without actually pinning down the data. But Boro were like a deer in the headlights with this (and still are). It was mugs money - and Alves had certainly found his mug.
As some of you know, I have connections with some of the pioneers in the sports data science field. That Alves signing has been back tested using several different formulas and it never returns well. There's all sorts of things that go into it. But just on a basic level, there was a trend for Brazilian players to flop after initially showing promise. This would often happen after securing a big money move. The Boro move was worth over £10million to Alves, his job was likely done before he kicked a ball. Seriously, what was his motivation and what was he playing for? To secure Boro a mid-table position?
The blueprint for these types of things was Ronaldinho. A player who had it all and seemingly had everything to play for. But even he was done by the time he was 28.
jonny_greenings_sock
Well-known member
A lot of Brazilian players do tend to burn out or fade away early.
I think there’s a number of reasons. They start very, very young - Neymar and that new kid Endrick are playing every game in the first team against grown men at 16. Vast majority of them come from the kind of poverty we can’t imagine. There’s no sports science and nutritionists in the favelas, they barely have shoes. Starting life like that is going to impact your longevity compared to a well nourished Western European kid.
Also, and broad strokes here but happy go lucky nature and a lot of them do love to party. You see a lot of Brazilian players get the big move and celebrate that like ‘career done’, so by 28-30 they’re on the slide.
There’s a lot of exceptions but a hell of a lot of examples. Like there’s no way Neymar should be in semi retirement at 31, you can be a top level player at 35 nowadays if you take care of yourself.
I think there’s a number of reasons. They start very, very young - Neymar and that new kid Endrick are playing every game in the first team against grown men at 16. Vast majority of them come from the kind of poverty we can’t imagine. There’s no sports science and nutritionists in the favelas, they barely have shoes. Starting life like that is going to impact your longevity compared to a well nourished Western European kid.
Also, and broad strokes here but happy go lucky nature and a lot of them do love to party. You see a lot of Brazilian players get the big move and celebrate that like ‘career done’, so by 28-30 they’re on the slide.
There’s a lot of exceptions but a hell of a lot of examples. Like there’s no way Neymar should be in semi retirement at 31, you can be a top level player at 35 nowadays if you take care of yourself.
Jedi boro
Well-known member
Ronaldinho is an interesting story as it’s clear he had the talent an incredible player with a god given gift but I think you losing his father so young in such tragic circumstances clearly impacted his attitude on life and how easily it can be taken away so I think his hedonism was largely fuelled by this.
For those that don’t know his father drowned in his brother ( also a footballer) swimming pool when Ronaldinho was only 8.
Here
How Ronaldinho's father's death in swimming pool tragedy shaped his life| All Football
Ronaldinho was the ultimate free spirit on the pitch.
m.allfootballapp.com
jonny_greenings_sock
Well-known member
Massively traumatic thing to go through.Ronaldinho is an interesting story as it’s clear he had the talent an incredible player with a god given gift but I think you losing his father so young in such tragic circumstances clearly impacted his attitude on life and how easily it can be taken away so I think his hedonism was largely fuelled by this.
For those that don’t know his father drowned in his brother ( also a footballer) swimming pool when Ronaldinho was only 8.
Here
How Ronaldinho's father's death in swimming pool tragedy shaped his life| All Football
Ronaldinho was the ultimate free spirit on the pitch.
But you also can’t remove the free spirit off the pitch without removing the free spirit on the pitch. He’s one of the best ever examples because no one played with as much fun as Ronaldinho, and all he did was party when he wasn’t playing.
Grealish is nowhere near as bad but similar in some ways, totally unpredictable on all fronts. Makes him unique. Add Gazza and Lee Tomlin and Merson and Gaston to this list of mavericks, you see their personality in the way they play.