TeessideCleveland
Well-known member

Home Office flying of Pride flag was ‘monstrous thing’, says Braverman
In speech condemned by LGBTQ Tories, ex-home secretary says party failed to ‘stop the lunatic woke virus’
That's not really how politics works unfortunately and is something Labour are guilty of doing. In a 2 party system, which is effectively what we have, power will swap hands between the two. It always does. It is rarely because the opposition has become more appealing but because people eventually want a change. The 2 parties have a choice of sticking to their guns and waiting for a turn or going after voters on the opposite side and then convincing themselves it was the moving central that achieved it and not just the fact that they were the alternative that people were getting away from. If the Tories went right and stayed right then they'd get in eventually just the same as if they went left. Labour also had a perfect opportunity to go left this election but instead went right and those centrists will now use that as "proof" that you need to go right to win when the reality is they could have fielded a s***y rag on a stick as leader and beat the Tories.I think it's fair to say she's attempting to take the party to the right of Reform! Truly despicable comments from her.
I really hope the tories do lurch further to the right as I feel they can only win from the centre and them going full on braverman will hopefully finish them off for good.
We are seeing a lot of populist, career politicians who, instead of trying to do good, just say what sounds good to get in power.That's not really how politics works unfortunately and is something Labour are guilty of doing. In a 2 party system, which is effectively what we have, power will swap hands between the two. It always does. It is rarely because the opposition has become more appealing but because people eventually want a change. The 2 parties have a choice of sticking to their guns and waiting for a turn or going after voters on the opposite side and then convincing themselves it was the moving central that achieved it and not just the fact that they were the alternative that people were getting away from. If the Tories went right and stayed right then they'd get in eventually just the same as if they went left. Labour also had a perfect opportunity to go left this election but instead went right and those centrists will now use that as "proof" that you need to go right to win when the reality is they could have fielded a s***y rag on a stick as leader and beat the Tories.
The Tories going further right can only be a bad thing because anyone seeking an alternative to Labour will have a choice between Reform or Tories and if they are both trying to out-extreme each other then it will not be a pleasant place with a large part of the country having to kowtow to the crazies on the far right. That's how USA ended up with Trump. We can see from there that moving further and further right doesn't lose votes, it just legitimises the abhorrent views of the extremists.
I disagree, we ssaw in 2017 and 2019, after the tories had had years in government that just being a different party was not enough to win the elections.That's not really how politics works unfortunately and is something Labour are guilty of doing. In a 2 party system, which is effectively what we have, power will swap hands between the two. It always does. It is rarely because the opposition has become more appealing but because people eventually want a change. The 2 parties have a choice of sticking to their guns and waiting for a turn or going after voters on the opposite side and then convincing themselves it was the moving central that achieved it and not just the fact that they were the alternative that people were getting away from. If the Tories went right and stayed right then they'd get in eventually just the same as if they went left. Labour also had a perfect opportunity to go left this election but instead went right and those centrists will now use that as "proof" that you need to go right to win when the reality is they could have fielded a s***y rag on a stick as leader and beat the Tories.
The Tories going further right can only be a bad thing because anyone seeking an alternative to Labour will have a choice between Reform or Tories and if they are both trying to out-extreme each other then it will not be a pleasant place with a large part of the country having to kowtow to the crazies on the far right. That's how USA ended up with Trump. We can see from there that moving further and further right doesn't lose votes, it just legitimises the abhorrent views of the extremists.
We all know there were unique situations at those times. 2017 hadn't been a long time for the Tories. They had only very recently won a decent size majority in 2015. The country was largely satisfied wit what they were offering hence the large majority (and it being their first time in sole power because they spent the first 5 years in coalition). 2019 was a single issue election. People were sick of the Tories but they were more sick of there being no end to the Brexit debate and Labour just didn't present a credible solution.I disagree, we ssaw in 2017 and 2019, after the tories had had years in government that just being a different party was not enough to win the elections.
If the tories run on a hate filled platform in 4 or 5 years then I think they lose again, especially if Reform or the next iteration of them is around to split the vote.
The way I see it - Tories can either:I disagree, we ssaw in 2017 and 2019, after the tories had had years in government that just being a different party was not enough to win the elections.
If the tories run on a hate filled platform in 4 or 5 years then I think they lose again, especially if Reform or the next iteration of them is around to split the vote.
I not sure I agree.If the Tories went right and stayed right then they'd get in eventually just the same as if they went left.
Except this is not USA obviously and we have a centrist party in the Libdems who took seats off cabinet ministers in true blue areas. The general abhorrence for Trump in this country won’t allow a similar type like Braverman or Bad Enoch to seize power. I firmly believe that. If Labour do the right job these far right people will remain on the fringe complaining and shouting and we will challenge and attack their views at every opportunity we can.That's not really how politics works unfortunately and is something Labour are guilty of doing. In a 2 party system, which is effectively what we have, power will swap hands between the two. It always does. It is rarely because the opposition has become more appealing but because people eventually want a change. The 2 parties have a choice of sticking to their guns and waiting for a turn or going after voters on the opposite side and then convincing themselves it was the moving central that achieved it and not just the fact that they were the alternative that people were getting away from. If the Tories went right and stayed right then they'd get in eventually just the same as if they went left. Labour also had a perfect opportunity to go left this election but instead went right and those centrists will now use that as "proof" that you need to go right to win when the reality is they could have fielded a s***y rag on a stick as leader and beat the Tories.
The Tories going further right can only be a bad thing because anyone seeking an alternative to Labour will have a choice between Reform or Tories and if they are both trying to out-extreme each other then it will not be a pleasant place with a large part of the country having to kowtow to the crazies on the far right. That's how USA ended up with Trump. We can see from there that moving further and further right doesn't lose votes, it just legitimises the abhorrent views of the extremists.
It's not a bad thing in my opinion. They will continue to make the Tories unelectable for years to come.The gap between the general public and Tory Pary members has never been wider IMO
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A very good thing. The Tory Party could be unelectable for a generation.It's not a bad thing in my opinion. They will continue to make the Tories unelectable for years to come.