Stoke city

Borokian1876

Borokian1876

Well-known member
A similar club to us in a similar decline ( probably worse ) makes you wonder will clubs like us and them ever establish ourselves again? With our current ownership model I really can’t see it, if we ever do go up without sounding negative will it be at best more than 2 seasons? The gaps getting bigger Burnley last season made the league look silly but look like they’ll likely go down, will the financial gap between the premier league only get worse won’t it?
 
You could not be more wrong
Borokian1876 said:
A similar club to us in a similar decline
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Stoke have one of the riches owners in football ( not a nation state)

A 2022 report of the family revealed that their estimated net worth amounted to £8.637 billion, an increase of £189 million compared to 2021. This placed the family as the 17th richest in the United Kingdom, with Denise Coates believed to be the highest paid person in the country.
 
In some ways if the top 7 clubs broke away (Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, Man United, Man City, Liverpool and Newcastle) into a Euro Super League that would leave a top division of only 13 Domestic Clubs and other clubs that could attract 30k crowds would be needed to fill it.

This new English Premier league would not be as rich and it would be more even.
 
Redwurzel said:
In some ways if the top 7 clubs broke away (Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, Man United, Man City, Liverpool and Newcastle) into a Euro Super League that would leave a top division of only 13 Domestic Clubs and other clubs that could attract 30k crowds would be needed to fill it.

This new English Premier league would not be as rich and it would be more even.
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It’ll happen one day hopefully it will aswell. It’s depressing struggle in this league but going up to get tonked every week is aswell although the financial rewards are what we would need especially atm
 
Jedi boro said:
You could not be more wrong


Stoke have one of the riches owners in football ( not a nation state)

A 2022 report of the family revealed that their estimated net worth amounted to £8.637 billion, an increase of £189 million compared to 2021. This placed the family as the 17th richest in the United Kingdom, with Denise Coates believed to be the highest paid person in the country.
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But there clearly being ran poorly, otherwise they would not be in the bottom half of the championship every season
 
Otto42 said:
Stoke seem very similar to us. Seem to have bought loads since relegation who all looked decent signings and just haven’t worked out. Got through a few managers too who all on the face of it seemed good appointments. Also owned by a local fan.
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I have always found them the closest comparison as a club to us. It’s a “ city “ but it’s not really as it’s made up of 6 towns. It’s more like a contribution like Teesside bit smaller than teesside overall but still compareable stuck in a limbo like us north west/ midlands us North Yorkshire/ north east comparable yet slightly smaller support than us there’s definite similarities. There owner is rich but there clearly being ran poorly, otherwise they would not be bottom 8 every season
 
Borokian1876 said:
It’ll happen one day hopefully it will aswell. It’s depressing struggle in this league but going up to get tonked every week is aswell although the financial rewards are what we would need especially atm
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It won't happen. The top clubs want to break away into a Euro League but they also want to dominate domestically too. They wont give up the big tv money and big crowds that top 6 or 7 brings in England.
 
fmttmadmin said:
It won't happen. The top clubs want to break away into a Euro League but they also want to dominate domestically too. They wont give up the big tv money and big crowds that top 6 or 7 brings in England.
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They’ll split as you say field 2 teams
 
Redwurzel said:
In some ways if the top 7 clubs broke away (Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, Man United, Man City, Liverpool and Newcastle) into a Euro Super League that would leave a top division of only 13 Domestic Clubs and other clubs that could attract 30k crowds would be needed to fill it.

This new English Premier league would not be as rich and it would be more even.
Click to expand...
Top 7? Or do you mean richest 7?
Only 4 of those clubs are in the current top 7 and only 5 finished there last season.
 
I feel there's a cycle.

Brighton are currently at the top of it.
It's not so long ago that Southampton were the "successful" midsized club
Before them it was Swansea
Stoke had their run of top half finished
Before that, we had our day in the sun.

Leicester and Southampton have come down after long runs in the top division,which means someone else is getting their feet under the table. The bullet will work its way round for Wolves, Brentford and Palace too.
 
Stoke is about half the size of Tees Valley and nearer bigger cities than we are. (Manc/Liv/Brum). There are also bigger clubs than Hartlepool and Darlo locally.

But there are big similarities.
1. 6 towns no real centre.
2. They have no serious rival that has an equal hatred. (They hate Wolves, who don't care that much about them by comparison to West Brom)
3. Huge under-achievement given they are one of the oldest clubs. Just one LC and one losing FA Final. A couple of European seasons.
4. Local family owners, albeit light years more wealthy.
5. Both came down with big debts to owner, spent beyond their means, made awful decisions around managers and recruitment.
6. Both Clubs show they have lost about a quarter of a billion pounds in trading as shown on their 2022 Balance Sheets
7. Both Clubs owed their parent Group massive sums into 2022. Stoke owed £212m where we owed a mere £142m.
8. Both clubs are basket cases. MFC had a nett negative shareholder value of -£132m, Stoke were -£195m.

Without being biased they have good support but not quite our level, as my Stokie mate would agree.

There are however big differences.

1. Stoke's owners have got away with murder re FFP, as opposed to ours. A huge part of their debt was created by them writing off player values and huge amortisation of bad buys that caused unbelievable losses which they concentrated around Covid and appear to have got away with it.
2. Their owner then waived £120m of Group loans in 2022, turning them at a stroke into a far healthier looking basket case. When you have their family business and wealth behind you I guess you can do that. Well they did.
 
indeedido said:
Stoke is about half the size of Tees Valley and nearer bigger cities than we are. (Manc/Liv/Brum). There are also bigger clubs than Hartlepool and Darlo locally.

But there are big similarities.
1. 6 towns no real centre.
2. They have no serious rival that has an equal hatred. (They hate Wolves, who don't care that much about them by comparison to West Brom)
3. Huge under-achievement given they are one of the oldest clubs. Just one LC and one losing FA Final. A couple of European seasons.
4. Local family owners, albeit light years more wealthy.
5. Both came down with big debts to owner, spent beyond their means, made awful decisions around managers and recruitment.
6. Both Clubs show they have lost about a quarter of a billion pounds in trading as shown on their 2022 Balance Sheets
7. Both Clubs owed their parent Group massive sums into 2022. Stoke owed £212m where we owed a mere £142m.
8. Both clubs are basket cases. MFC had a nett negative shareholder value of -£132m, Stoke were -£195m.

Without being biased they have good support but not quite our level, as my Stokie mate would agree.

There are however big differences.

1. Stoke's owners have got away with murder re FFP, as opposed to ours. A huge part of their debt was created by them writing off player values and huge amortisation of bad buys that caused unbelievable losses which they concentrated around Covid and appear to have got away with it.
2. Their owner then waived £120m of Group loans in 2022, turning them at a stroke into a far healthier looking basket case. When you have their family business and wealth behind you I guess you can do that. Well they did.
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Yeah I think your right. If you look at our historical support it’s remarkable I love the fact we will never have a forum patting ourselves on the back, or clapping the gate like the mackems and Geordies do but we do have brilliant support. Both clubs are on a decline. I think our rivalry with Sunderland is a lot more intense then stoke and wba. We are often compared to them too but I think without sounding arrogant them two don’t have the fanbase we have we have a bigger floating fanbase probably wolves and Birmingham woukd be a better comparison for us. We have seen how clubs can get stuck in rots MFC go through spells of bottling promotion and then being mediocre for a few seasons it seems the real doom and gloom years are sadly back on the tees, let’s hope we kick on and Scott redeems himself in January
 
Frozen Horse said:
I feel there's a cycle.

Brighton are currently at the top of it.
It's not so long ago that Southampton were the "successful" midsized club
Before them it was Swansea
Stoke had their run of top half finished
Before that, we had our day in the sun.

Leicester and Southampton have come down after long runs in the top division,which means someone else is getting their feet under the table. The bullet will work its way round for Wolves, Brentford and Palace too.
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That all makes a lot of sense, but I believe talented and rich owners can buck that cycle.
 
Thought they were excellent when they came here last season, we done well to get a draw out of the game.
I expected them to kick on this season, but I'm guessing that, like us, they were reliant on loan players.
 
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