I think this will happen. VDB has earned it.
Starting back 4, everyone fit?
- Thread starter Caesium137
- Start date
Humpty
Well-known member
Fry had a poor game on Saturday. His first of the season. He's inexplicably been made a scapegoat by some for our defensive troubles. The truth is our defensive troubles have been here since last season and are deeply rooted in the manner in which we play. For balance, Lenihan is a born leader and i think fans resonate with that because he looks a lot more confident in the way he goes about the game. I also think a few would be surprised at just how many mistakes Lenihan has made this season mind.
uncle_rico
Well-known member
If everyone is fit, our best back 4 is...
RB - Smith
CB - Lenihan
CB - Clarke
LB - O'Brien
RB - Smith
CB - Lenihan
CB - Clarke
LB - O'Brien
MichaelDebeve
Well-known member
I dont think Fry's game on saturday was as bad as some have made out.
However, as I said above the 2 through balls in particular were really poor. I was tearing my hair out.
Simply red
Well-known member
They have been under performing as a pair since day one.
I hope they prove me wrong , and step up but I very much doubt they will .
There is a lad called Ladislav Krejci at Sparta Prague who is streets ahead of both of them , captain , leader LCH who can also play DM . Current Czech international age 24 , h1.91m . Maybe he could play along side one of the above bringing Leadership and balance.
And a LB at Hearts called Alex Cochrane who is quality . Can play LB LWB and CM . Get him and move Obrien forward . He is a clone of Obrien . Cheaper option to Obrien long term in fee and salary .
Please Pass this on to our recruitment team if you can , I have tried but get no reply these days , so unsure if they get the message . ( they have in the past )
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BoroMart
Well-known member
And that’s why you can’t put your trust in him. RVDB will take his place at CB next year
Paulroddam7
Well-known member
I’m not a big fan but I actually think, Watford aside, he has been playing well
We could do with better thoughI’m not a big fan but I actually think, Watford aside, he has been playing well
I think his bad performances have been overshadowed by the blame being directed at newer players.
He's been left flat footed for counter attacking goals too many times (but to be fair to him... so has Lenihan).
That's why we've conceded the 3rd-4th most in the league, an average of nearly 2 goals every game.
MickaelDebevePhenomenal
Well-known member
I'd say the fact the people are voting for RVB or Clarke at CB having barely seen them play, ditto Bangura at LB, shows how poor we've been this season.
By the times the seasons out it will be Bangura/clarke/lenihan/Smith with RVB pushing the 2 CB's and Smith too very closely.
By the times the seasons out it will be Bangura/clarke/lenihan/Smith with RVB pushing the 2 CB's and Smith too very closely.
MichaelDebeve
Well-known member
I actually want to see RVB have a string of games at CB first .... then I'll come back on here and make my final choice!
Paulroddam7
Well-known member
I agree, like I say I’m no fan but I do think he has done pretty well on the whole in the 3/4 games prior to Watford.
KeepCalm&CarrickOn
Active member
LB for me would be O'Brien
CB would be Clarke and Rav but in the a sense of Clarke then Lenihan.
CB would be Clarke and Rav but in the a sense of Clarke then Lenihan.
Caesium137
Well-known member
I'm surprised by the preference for Dijksteel at right back. He's definitely more athletic and plays slightly better going forward, but pretty much every game he seems to get the ball caught under his feet or switch off at some critical moment that costs us.
I do think if you look at both Fry's and Dijksteel's number of bookings, it suggests they are either both utterly immaculate in everything they do, or not committed / aggressive enough to do what is needed at times to protect our goal.
Fry has 12 bookings and one red (which was a bit harsh) in 200 plus appearances. As a comparison Ayala has similar appearances for us at 216, but he has 48 booking (three doubles bookings, leading to reds) and two straight reds. Ayala also had 23 goals, Fry has two.
Dijksteel has 11 bookings and 1 red in 99 Champo games, four assists, no goals. Tommy Smith over his Champo career has 279 appearances, 7 goals & 31 assists. Discipline wise he's got 55 yellows and 2 reds.
I do think we lack commitment and aggression from our defenders attacking the ball, at both ends of the pitch.
I do think if you look at both Fry's and Dijksteel's number of bookings, it suggests they are either both utterly immaculate in everything they do, or not committed / aggressive enough to do what is needed at times to protect our goal.
Fry has 12 bookings and one red (which was a bit harsh) in 200 plus appearances. As a comparison Ayala has similar appearances for us at 216, but he has 48 booking (three doubles bookings, leading to reds) and two straight reds. Ayala also had 23 goals, Fry has two.
Dijksteel has 11 bookings and 1 red in 99 Champo games, four assists, no goals. Tommy Smith over his Champo career has 279 appearances, 7 goals & 31 assists. Discipline wise he's got 55 yellows and 2 reds.
I do think we lack commitment and aggression from our defenders attacking the ball, at both ends of the pitch.
Humpty
Well-known member
and if Fry had three times as many cards as that, some would be saying he doesn't read the game well enough or is too rash. He can't win.
I don't think he's coping well with this style of play but he's still our best centre half. That may change but i've not seen anything of RVDB at centre half so i couldn't possibly compare the two right now.
MickaelDebevePhenomenal
Well-known member
Well put, I've said very similar things on previous posts RE Dijksteel. Essentially he can be MOTM..... until he isn't!
Fry reminds me of Ben Gibson, in a settled Back 4 with a right back sitting in next to him and midfield offering protection he looks a very capable centre half. It allows him to go Man V Man and invariably he will come out on top.
When the we are more open, or the opposition have a thread from the left, so our RB cant stay so narrow and we don't have a RB/CM offering cover, he struggles positionally and is indecisive
festa5
Well-known member
I don't think you need to be aggressive to be a good defender (see: Southgate and Woodgate for example). But I think it would probably help more with the tactics Carrick wants to use.
The defence looks weak at times because they're sometimes left exposed, particularly on the counter attack. I think in those instances you need someone who's going to act decisively with excellent decision making to nip those attacks in the bud. Sometimes that'll mean making a tactical foul.
Fry is far too passive for me. I think he's usually good when the defence is set and he has team mates around him. If you can isolate him though he looks a bit lost. And the way we play means that's going to happen at some point most matches.
Stick a proper holding midfielder in there and he'd look loads better. But we don't have one and I'm not sure Carrick is that bothered about playing with one anyway.
Caesium137
Well-known member
Oh definitely, but for the level of defenders we have, in the league we play in, I think sometimes you need to be a bit more physical or 'take one for the team'.
Woodgate has 35 bookings in 244 appearances for example, not aggressive as a player, but needs must on occasion along with the odd mistimed tackle etc. he also has 7 goals in the PL.
festa5
Well-known member
And he was quick for a centre back which counted for a lot.
Plus he and Southgate both read the game immaculately. You don't need to be aggressive if you can do that. But if you read it that well you're not playing in the second tier for long.