Starmer reneges on nationalisation plans

[SuperStu]

No he is not. We are back to your imaginary view of Starmer.

He stated on TV yesterday that he will be renationalising rail.

You're mistaken. It's already been explained back on page 1 or 2 of this thread. He said some parts of the current rail network are nationalised and that Labour won't change that. Nothing more.

Do you think it would be a sensible policy to come out and say "We know there is a cost of living crisis, rampant inflation, increased national debt and the NHS needs a massive funding boost to the tune of many billions but we are going to spend £196 billion (CBI 2019) on nationalising the energy market"

Do you think the CBI might possibly be biased? Perhaps even just a small chance they may have an agenda?

 

[BlindBoyGrunt]

Here's a link to just before the last election which perfectly explains the majority of voters opinions on re nationalisation...

Labour economic policies are popular, so why aren’t Labour? | YouGov

Economic competence, Jeremy Corbyn and Brexit could all be bigger negatives for Labour than their policies are a positive

yougov.co.uk

Labour tried to explain the costs but got hammered as being way too low and couldn't answer how it would effect the value of the pensions tied up in them.

The policies were popular but the majority of voters didn't believe it was possible and they certainly didn't want to pay for it in taxation.

It's simply not possible for Labour to promise to rebuild what the Tories have destroyed, return to strong growth and also nationalise the utilities at the same time. It's completely pie in the sky stuff and the voters will see it that way.

That link demonstrates what I have said in the past, that a real political animal doesn't hide his beliefs but puts them on the table and then goes out and wins the argument.

It also begs a question. If this was known before the 2019 GE, then why did Starmer bother to make his pledges in the first place?

 

[Chris_Boro]

What if it comes down to a choice between that and 'growth, growth, growth'?

Depends on the type of curry I've had...

 

[Chris_Boro]

That link demonstrates what I have said in the past, that a real political animal doesn't hide his beliefs but puts them on the table and then goes out and wins the argument.

It also begs a question. If this was known before the 2019 GE, then why did Starmer bother to make his pledges in the first place?

I guess it follows similar to my personal reasoning, in 2019 I supported that manifesto, now I believe re nationalisation is not the priority for the next government for the reasons I've stated.

 

[HolgateCorner]

You have to live in the real world of how people perceive and see these things.

Corbyn’s 2017 result with a manifesto around nationalisation that was achieved despite the toxic centrist, soft Tories in his party and the media showed many people were ready for such policies.

There was then a key switch from the media between 2017 and 2019. The policies when polled were popular, and still are. They lost the argument. So instead they switched to vilifying and attacking the man behind them.

The appetite for nationalisation seems higher than ever. So many people asking the question “why are France’s energy bills going up by such a small amount?” because they have a nationalised system, “why don’t we have that” because people voted against it.

Water companies making £3 billion in profits whilst dumping raw sewage into our rivers.

BT making over a £ 1 billion in profits, paying executives ridiculous money whilst having food banks for their staff who they’ve offered 3% pay rises to.

The conditions are there, it just requires the political will to go out there an win the argument.

The approach of “well let’s just be slightly less s*** than the Tories” requires the Tories to get ridiculously s*** for enough people to vote Labour in order to form a majority.

Corbyn achieved a very big vote in 2017 with a fairly radical manifesto but so did Theresa May in direct opposition with a poor campaign, which probably shows that despite the policy being popular it was not enough to get voters to switch sides.

The policy may be popular but it will not win an election if voters think it might lead to tax rises and is an easy ‘here come Labour to bankrupt the country again’ attack for the Tories and their media.

There are other potential issues to do with doubling grid capacity and output by 2050 and the eye watering costs of achieving that which I won’t go into here.

Like I said Elephant Trap, in my opinion.

 

[BlindBoyGrunt]

The policy may be popular but it will not win an election if voters think it might lead to tax rises and is an easy ‘here come Labour to bankrupt the country again’ attack for the Tories and their media.

Then we have a choice. We can either win the argument or not do what is best for the majority of the country. Many, many countries - including all of Scandinavia, Germany, France, Netherlands and Belgium - have higher tax takes than the UK and manage ok.

 

[HolgateCorner]

Then we have a choice. We can either win the argument or not do what is best for the majority of the country. Many, many countries - including all of Scandinavia, Germany, France, Netherlands and Belgium - have higher tax takes than the UK and manage ok.

I think it’s the Tory media, as you know run by foreign billionaires, who have been dominating the argument for the last ten years. It all started when Osborne managed quite easily to blame the global banking crash on Gordon Brown.

Labour need to find an answer to the incessant propaganda, and there is an enormous amount of subliminal stuff around these days as well, to start getting the message across. Even You Gov have been caught rigging the polling to form public opinion.

Regardless of policy detail, which we largely know what a Labour government will try to do, it’s the messaging and the benefits available to the working classes which they need to concentrate on to win an election.

Its hard for Labour because it is not a party designed for the rich and wealthy, so we need to be cleverer and better rather than arguing amongst ourselves.