Shamima Begum refused return to UK

Laughing said:
Whilst it's all we have, and I may be wrong, but I imagine the supreme Court is filled with old white men a bit out of touch with the real world. Bear will be along in a minute with the average age of supreme justices being 23 or some such.
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The judge in this case Lord Reed also works in the European Court of Human Rights, so he will have an empathetic mindset I'd imagine
 
Primus84 said:
It's a false narrative, to say that someone should be deprived of their citizenship because for them to come home we need to find people happy to have them live next to them and be subject to press intrusion.

Do you have any empathy for people at all FatCat? Do you not see the potential for her to have been a victim of coercion, grooming and radicalisation?
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As I’ve mentioned a few times on this thread from the outset - I am split on what is the right thing to do. I mentioned at 15 she is very young and grooming, coercion and radicalisation definitely come into this - I don’t think I am in disagreement with you.

the point I am making is the ideals here and the reality are somewhat different. If It’s the right thing to bring her back where does she go - you can’t say that doesn’t matter because its absolutely part of the conundrum - with even the people wanting her back not wanting the melle that that will bring on their doorstep.
 
FatCat said:
As I’ve mentioned a few times on this thread from the outset - I am split on what is the right thing to do. I mentioned at 15 she is very young and grooming, coercion and radicalisation definitely come into this - I don’t think I am in disagreement with you.

the point I am making is the ideals here and the reality are somewhat different. If It’s the right thing to bring her back where does she go - you can’t say that doesn’t matter because its absolutely part of the conundrum - with even the people wanting her back not wanting the melle that that will bring on their doorstep.
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So it's fine to strip someone's citizenship because allowing them back might inconvenience some people?

As I said, false narrative.
 
Primus84 said:
So it's fine to strip someone's citizenship because allowing them back might inconvenience some people?

As I said, false narrative
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No it’s fine to keep her out of the country whilst the decision on her citizenship is heard.
 
Londons_Moggie said:
The judge in this case Lord Reed also works in the European Court of Human Rights, so he will have an empathetic mindset I'd imagine
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It was tongue in cheek. Primus has kindly shared profiles. Most don't look much older or whiter than me, to be fair. Oh and they're is one lady justice too which surprised me.
 
Perhaps invading sovereign states on a pack of lies may have been the baseline for the decisions of those who have traveled abroad....?
Meanwhile the USA fund terrorists in Syria and equip Israel with weapons to bomb innocent civilians. The British Military Mission has flown armamaments through Cyprus during the lock - down to the Tyranical State of Saudi Arabia, using British made weapons to fight a proxy war in Yemen.
Lets not think we smell of roses.
 
I'm also not sure where I stand. I get the desire to strip a hater of this country of their citizenship. But a) who decides what a hater is, I mean I want the royal family gone and to some that would mean I hate this country, b) she was a kid and was groomed, that needs to count for something, c) I don't like the idea of trial by media with the Home Secretary setting the punishment rather than facts played out in court, d) she won't go to prison for her crimes.

This feels like a Tory PR stunt, using the media and false patriotism to whip up hate. I'm just not comfortable with that. If Begum was lets say French, and had planted bombs here, we would be asking for extradition to bring her here, so why are we not letting her come here for trial?
 
r00fie1 said:
Perhaps invading sovereign states on a pack of lies may have been the baseline for the decisions of those who have traveled abroad....?
Meanwhile the USA fund terrorists in Syria and equip Israel with weapons to bomb innocent civilians. The British Military Mission has flown armamaments through Cyprus during the lock - down to the Tyranical State of Saudi Arabia, using British made weapons to fight a proxy war in Yemen.
Lets not think we smell of roses.
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This is where you and I differ. I don't see the UK and US (NATO) as the axis of evil. We are not perfect but I prefer our way to many others.

China Russia France Canada, they don't sell arms then. Just the UK and US. What an odd argument.
 
Same_as_before said:
This is where you and I differ. I don't see the UK and US (NATO) as the axis of evil. We are not perfect but I prefer our way to many others.

China Russia France Canada, they don't sell arms then. Just the UK and US. What an odd argument.
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Who called who an "axis of evil"? [there was an assumption there young man]
Do you deny the US are funding terrorists in syria and selling arms to Israel or that British weapons are being used to kill innocent civilians in Yemen?
 
r00fie1 said:
Who called who an "axis of evil"? [there was an assumption there young man]
Do you deny the US are funding terrorists in syria and selling arms to Israel or that British weapons are being used to kill innocent civilians in Yemen?
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I am sure the US is, as is: Israel, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Iran, France ...

I even agree on arms: I would lose no sleep if the British arms industry closed tomorrow, I don't think it would save one life.

I thought this thread was about a young girl without any legal rights.
 
Same_as_before said:
I am sure the US is, as is: Israel, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Iran, France ...

I even agree on arms: I would lose no sleep if the British arms industry closed tomorrow, I don't think it would save one life.

I thought this thread was about a young girl without any legal rights.
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It appears to have been expanded beyond the Home Secretary`s decision and an intelligent conversation about what motivates such a decision by a child....
Glad you engaged.
For my six pennorth - I dont agree that the Minister of State has the right to strip anyone of their citizenship - that includes the Windrush Generation and foreign nationals who have served in our armed forces and denied a passport at the end of service.
Speak with you later no doubt. (y)
 
a british child was groomed and radicalised.. laws in this country are put in place to protect it's citizens.
our government taking away citizenship and it seems no longer recognising a 15 year old as a child.

very dangerous territory and sets an unnerving precedent for the future.
 
What is really sad to me is that the same countries seem to be targeted by the West. Russia, Israel. Iran as thier play thing.

Iraq, Yemen, Syria, The Kurds, Lebanon never will have peace.
 
newyddion said:
a british child was groomed and radicalised.. laws in this country are put in place to protect it's citizens.
our government taking away citizenship and it seems no longer recognising a 15 year old as a child.

very dangerous territory and sets an unnerving precedent for the future.
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Spot on.
At the flip of a pen a Government Minister can make a decision on someones life.
That is tyranny.
 
Same_as_before said:
What is really sad to me is that the same countries seem to be targeted by the West. Russia, Israel. Iran as thier play thing.

Iraq, Yemen, Syria, The Kurds, Lebanon never will have peace.
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Or the Palestinians.
Denying Human Rights anywhere is unlawful and despicable.
Thats where you and I agree.
 
Completely agree, and on the Palestinians.

Back to the law: a government who said, for the first time in my Lifetime. 'we will break international law' can be trusted with a young girl is beyond me.
 
r00fie1 said:
Spot on.
At the flip of a pen a Government Minister can make a decision on someones life.
That is tyranny.
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where does it end? clearly she wasn't 'the right kind of british' for our laws to apply to her.

maybe northerners aren't 'the right kind of british' when it comes to investment in infrastructure, schools and hospitals. maybe we're not 'the right kind of british' to deserve vaccinations.. we should probably wait in line until 'the right kind of british' have had their share of the pot, their noses in the trough.. then we can have whatever's left over.

can someone put a straw haired toff on top of a red bus waiving a flag.. i'm starting to feel a little less british than i'm supposed to.
 
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