Sewage in our waterways

Once again it’s a Brexit issue. It repealed an EU directive on clean water.
I still don't think you understand how things work. In or out of the EU we can have clean waters. The people that have decided that we can't are the Conservative party. They could prevent it and have chosen the opposite. We have full control over this issue but your government have chosen to pollute our waters.
 
I still don't think you understand how things work. In or out of the EU we can have clean waters. The people that have decided that we can't are the Conservative party. They could prevent it and have chosen the opposite. We have full control over this issue but your government have chosen to pollute our waters.
I don’t think you understand the brexit you voted for. In the EU we had to have clean waters. Brexiteers always talk about getting rid of those pesky EU laws. Therefore they’ve got what they wanted here. They should be happy for raw sewage to be pumped into our waterways. It was directly because they wanted rid of EU laws that it happened.
 
I don’t think you understand the brexit you voted for. In the EU we had to have clean waters. Brexiteers always talk about getting rid of those pesky EU laws. Therefore they’ve got what they wanted here. They should be happy for raw sewage to be pumped into our waterways. It was directly because they wanted rid of EU laws that it happened.
Wrong, wrong, wrong. We weren't in the EU just to protect us from ourselves. I'd guess most people think that our governments should do what is best for us. If all the EU was doing is protecting us from ourselves then the problem is clearly the people we have got in charge. My conscience is clear here because I didn't vote these people in for selfish reasons.

The biggest Brexit benefit will be when they get voted out because they can no longer hide behind EU laws. We can now see exactly what they stand for and people as gullible and selfish as you will finally realise it and stop putting these crooks in charge.
 
Wrong, wrong, wrong. We weren't in the EU just to protect us from ourselves. I'd guess most people think that our governments should do what is best for us. If all the EU was doing is protecting us from ourselves then the problem is clearly the people we have got in charge. My conscience is clear here because I didn't vote these people in for selfish reasons.

The biggest Brexit benefit will be when they get voted out because they can no longer hide behind EU laws. We can now see exactly what they stand for and people as gullible and selfish as you will finally realise it and stop putting these crooks in charge.
I’m 100% correct. Look at any brexit justification, any post, and pro brexit campaign. They ALL mention that they want to abolish EU laws. It was one of the main drivers. Well, tax avoidance was the main driver, but EU laws was one of the things they used to con the electorate. Therefore brexit directly lead to sewage in the waterways.

Without brexit it couldn’t have happened, regardless of the government in power.

If you voted for brexit. You have to own this. You can’t want rid of EU laws, then compalain of the consequences of getting rid of an EU law.

I think that’s the best sane thing about Brexit. It brainwashed people to such an extent they argue black is white on everything. Some of the failures of brexit can be argued against this way but not this one: vote to repeal EU laws, EU law gets repealed. No amount of spin, blaming the EU, Ukraine, Corbin can take away from that clear truism.

I’m sorry that upsets brexit ers, I know you’re all struggling to admit you were conned. But you were. And this is an example.
 
I’m 100% correct. Look at any brexit justification, any post, and pro brexit campaign. They ALL mention that they want to abolish EU laws. It was one of the main drivers. Well, tax avoidance was the main driver, but EU laws was one of the things they used to con the electorate. Therefore brexit directly lead to sewage in the waterways.

Without brexit it couldn’t have happened, regardless of the government in power.

If you voted for brexit. You have to own this. You can’t want rid of EU laws, then compalain of the consequences of getting rid of an EU law.

I think that’s the best sane thing about Brexit. It brainwashed people to such an extent they argue black is white on everything. Some of the failures of brexit can be argued against this way but not this one: vote to repeal EU laws, EU law gets repealed. No amount of spin, blaming the EU, Ukraine, Corbin can take away from that clear truism.

I’m sorry that upsets brexit ers, I know you’re all struggling to admit you were conned. But you were. And this is an example.
You literally voted for the people that made this decision. I didn't.

I'm looking forward to seeing the back of them. You'll twist it round and end up voting for them again, for selfish reasons again, and then spending the next 5 years telling everyone else how it's something that happened in the past's fault and nothing to do with your vote.

Let's break it down into very simple terms for you:

1. Brexit gives us control over this decision (but it doesn't make the decision for us).
2. Someone made this decision (Tories)
3. Someone voted for people to make this decision (you)

Brexit gave us control over many things. There are all sort of abhorrent things that a government could choose to do. Nobody is forcing them to make abhorrent decisions. They could do the right thing but they have been given power by stupid/gullible/selfish people. Thankfully that will only be temporary and you can go back to slagging off Labour for helping people too much instead of the Leopards eating your face.
 
You literally voted for the people that made this decision. I didn't.

I'm looking forward to seeing the back of them. You'll twist it round and end up voting for them again, for selfish reasons again, and then spending the next 5 years telling everyone else how it's something that happened in the past's fault and nothing to do with your vote.

Let's break it down into very simple terms for you:

1. Brexit gives us control over this decision (but it doesn't make the decision for us).
2. Someone made this decision (Tories)
3. Someone voted for people to make this decision (you)

Brexit gave us control over many things. There are all sort of abhorrent things that a government could choose to do. Nobody is forcing them to make abhorrent decisions. They could do the right thing but they have been given power by stupid/gullible/selfish people. Thankfully that will only be temporary and you can go back to slagging off Labour for helping people too much instead of the Leopards eating your face.
I think we are going to go round and round in circles on this one. And I get the feeling that you are one of these petty people who would rather attack me than discuss the issue so I’ll leave it with this.

You, I and everyone knows for an absolute fact that the driver for brexit was repealing EU laws.

We all know, for an absolute fact, that sewage has been allowed to be dumped on our waterways because of the repealing of EU directives. Those are two absolute facts.

I’m sorry that they upset you. I honestly apologise to all brexit ers who are getting upset that they have been conned but can’t yet admit it. I know it’s an uncomfortable position for brexit ers and you’d rather blame other people. I get that, it’s hard to admit your mistakes, especially when they involve being duped. But no matter how hard you try and blame others are argue against it my two facts above remain true.
 
Hi, Its a complex situation for sure but a couple of things to consider. Sewage has been entering our environment, rivers and the sea for hundreds of years, its not something that has just happened. Progressive governments of all sides have known about this and either not put in the funding or not ensured enough regulation, or both.
The EU put legislation in place many years ago to limit sewage discharges and the UK adopted this and made it UK law.
So the law is still there and has not gone away following our leaving the EU.
In fact the current government (if you can it that!), has introduced new laws recently called the Environment Act which will make water companies reduce sewage discharges.
Its going to take a long time to achieve and lots of money.
 
I think we are going to go round and round in circles on this one. And I get the feeling that you are one of these petty people who would rather attack me than discuss the issue so I’ll leave it with this.

You, I and everyone knows for an absolute fact that the driver for brexit was repealing EU laws.

We all know, for an absolute fact, that sewage has been allowed to be dumped on our waterways because of the repealing of EU directives. Those are two absolute facts.

I’m sorry that they upset you. I honestly apologise to all brexit ers who are getting upset that they have been conned but can’t yet admit it. I know it’s an uncomfortable position for brexit ers and you’d rather blame other people. I get that, it’s hard to admit your mistakes, especially when they involve being duped. But no matter how hard you try and blame others are argue against it my two facts above remain true.
I can fully accept that Brexit allows this to happen. Of course it does. Being in charge of our own decisions is exactly the way it should be. The difference is that Brexit doesn't mean it has to happen.

Do you accept responsibility for the party that you voted for making the decision to pollute our waters? That is the only time anyone has had the ability to stop/allow it. Your government think it is a good thing.

There is literally no high horse for you to be on here. You are stood on a lame donkey in a hole trying to blame everyone else. Accept some responsibility for once. Brexit gives us the option to do this. Your government have exercised this option. Nobody is forcing them, they have chosen. You knew what they were like before you voted for them and they are doing exactly what the rest of us expected them to do. Everyone told you they were bad but you didn't care because they did other things that benefit you. Hopefully this will be their last chance for a very long time because surely even you have realised that they are the problem.
 
Wrong, wrong, wrong. We weren't in the EU just to protect us from ourselves. I'd guess most people think that our governments should do what is best for us. If all the EU was doing is protecting us from ourselves then the problem is clearly the people we have got in charge. My conscience is clear here because I didn't vote these people in for selfish reasons.

The biggest Brexit benefit will be when they get voted out because they can no longer hide behind EU laws. We can now see exactly what they stand for and people as gullible and selfish as you will finally realise it and stop putting these crooks in charge.
Can you rely on this though? Trump got voted out and it's been insane but is currently the favourite to win the 2024 election. All it takes after tories being voted out is a bad run of economy etc even if caused by the tories, and they will be back in. People have short memories when voting and are happy to switch to what they perceive is better for them even if it isn't

Tories decimated the north east yet we have grinning faces in houchen, Clarke, young, vickers etc representing us
 
Can you rely on this though? Trump got voted out and it's been insane but is currently the favourite to win the 2024 election. All it takes after tories being voted out is a bad run of economy etc even if caused by the tories, and they will be back in. People have short memories when voting and are happy to switch to what they perceive is better for them even if it isn't

Tories decimated the north east yet we have grinning faces in houchen, Clarke, young, vickers etc representing us
Maybe not but that's democracy. All we can do is hope people do the right thing. People are free to vote for whichever party they choose. Obviously I want more people to share my beliefs and vote for the party I think is the correct one but we have to respect that people have different opinions. If the majority of the country want to pump sewage into the water then they can choose the party that promises to do so. You'd like to think they wouldn't but it is their right.

That doesn't justify wedding us to another institution just to protect us from ourselves though does it? The answer can only be to choose better leaders. Having fewer other things that the government can blame can only be a positive because they can't hide behind those institutions. Every decision they take is their own.
 
Maybe not but that's democracy. All we can do is hope people do the right thing. People are free to vote for whichever party they choose. Obviously I want more people to share my beliefs and vote for the party I think is the correct one but we have to respect that people have different opinions. If the majority of the country want to pump sewage into the water then they can choose the party that promises to do so. You'd like to think they wouldn't but it is their right.

That doesn't justify wedding us to another institution just to protect us from ourselves though does it? The answer can only be to choose better leaders. Having fewer other things that the government can blame can only be a positive because they can't hide behind those institutions. Every decision they take is their own.
We can hope people do the right thing but it's even better if they have to, that way we don't have to worry about what happens if idiots vote in people that don't want to do the right thing.
 
We can hope people do the right thing but it's even better if they have to, that way we don't have to worry about what happens if idiots vote in people that don't want to do the right thing.
That’s why we have laws and checks and balances.

That’s why it’s such a shame that, along with our freedom of movement, brexit removed this safety net too.

We have had a Tory government for 12 years now. I can only remember raw sewage being a major problem after we left the EU and their environmental laws
 
I voted remain mainly for pragmatic reasons as I believe it was better to have an extra layer of protection.

Surely anyone could see how bad the tory party are? And the tory party historically are usually the party of government.

My logical conclusion was that without EU protection we would have things like our own s*** literally washing up on our shores.

Did anyone really think anything different would happen?
 
I voted remain mainly for pragmatic reasons as I believe it was better to have an extra layer of protection.

Surely anyone could see how bad the tory party are? And the tory party historically are usually the party of government.

My logical conclusion was that without EU protection we would have things like our own s*** literally washing up on our shores.

Did anyone really think anything different would happen?
Exactly! People don’t vote to remove laws if they are happy following them anyway. Brexit voters have directly caused this one. Shame
 
Exactly! People don’t vote to remove laws if they are happy following them anyway. Brexit voters have directly caused this one. Shame
Ha ha ha ha ha. That is literally what your government did.

Still no acceptance of blame I see. Everyone else's fault but mine. Perfect little Tory. Don't blame the people in charge that I voted for, it's the other people that have allowed them to be so evil. I only wanted them to do good things like let me avoid paying tax!
 
Ha ha ha ha ha. That is literally what your government did.

Still no acceptance of blame I see. Everyone else's fault but mine. Perfect little Tory. Don't blame the people in charge that I voted for, it's the other people that have allowed them to be so evil. I only wanted them to do good things like let me avoid paying tax!
You just keep digging a bigger and bigger hole for yourself. Of course it's down to Brexit - without that, the Tories could not have allowed this to happen.
 
Hi, Its a complex situation for sure but a couple of things to consider. Sewage has been entering our environment, rivers and the sea for hundreds of years, its not something that has just happened. Progressive governments of all sides have known about this and either not put in the funding or not ensured enough regulation, or both.
The EU put legislation in place many years ago to limit sewage discharges and the UK adopted this and made it UK law.
So the law is still there and has not gone away following our leaving the EU.
In fact the current government (if you can it that!), has introduced new laws recently called the Environment Act which will make water companies reduce sewage discharges.
Its going to take a long time to achieve and lots of money.
This is not really an honest appraisal of the Environmental Act and remember the current government voted against an amendment that would have placed a legal duty on the water companies for dumping sewage.
They can't get the chemicals to treat it as cheaply or readily because of Brexit and so the government did them a big solid and said "its fine just dump it into the sea at a faster rate than seen in a few decades.

Just because a government brings in an act doesn't mean it is fit for purpose as this legislation proves!!
 
It's not just EU vs UK legislation that's the problem. We can argue about the detail but both regimes were/are deficient in enforcement and consequences. The privately owned utility companies have underinvested since inception. They've calculated that the chances of being caught are slim and the consequences to the companies are negligible. It's cheaper and more profitable to pollute than not pollute. They won't take action until we criminalise their behaviour and put senior executives behind bars.
 
You just keep digging a bigger and bigger hole for yourself. Of course it's down to Brexit - without that, the Tories could not have allowed this to happen.
Which is utter nonsense. How can you not blame the Tories. They are the only ones responsible. You understand that we could have Brexit and the Tories voting the opposite way? If you do understand that extremely simple fact then you can surely understand that you can only blame the people that voted in Parliament for that decision.

This is like deciding to leave a pub having the option to drink drive or getting a taxi, choosing to drive drunk and knocking someone over and then blaming the people that decided to leave the pub. SmallTown is sat in the back seat blaming the people stood in the pub car park waiting for their taxi instead of the drunk person he decided should drive.
 
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