Rich men north of Richmond.

HarryVegas said:
On the same subject, it's plain that capitalism - or more accurately, unrestrained economic liberalism - has failed ordinary working class people. Trickle down theory remained just that - a theory, a con trick. Depressingly, those who have been left behind, or more accurately excluded, then turn their blame onto other fellow strugglers. I've just finished reading a very depressing book by someone who grew up in a Durham pit village, in which he describes himself as a socialist but is in reality the worst kind of Thatcherist. He professes to hate her and yet there he is, a millionaire, raining down his approbation on anyone who struggles so much they have to subsist on benefits.
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Without getting too deep Harry, or wanting to defend capitalism per se, working class people have been 'failed' by most economic systems throughout history. Equality has never existed.
 
indeedido said:
Come on LPB - do you really think this a cynical song? Is that the vibe you get, really?
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I don't think the song is cynical - I think he genuinely means what he says. His personal history sounds like he's been through it and I understand a lot of what he's going through. The fact that it's useful to a lot of quite unsavoury characters (Matt Walsh etc) is, imho, incidental.

However, I can't get on with the lyrics. His argument is that a distant elite are overtaxing 'good people' for the benefit of 'undeserving' people. I don't agree with that and it turns my stomach a bit.

If you're explicitly demonising these people on welfare in one line and then saying "people like me and people like you" as a calls to arms the next, you're coopting the language of solidarity.

Intelligencer had a good piece on this. Especially on the miners/minors bit.

"In fact, last year, every Democrat in Congress voted for legislation that ensured permanent funding for the Black Lung Disability Trust Fund, which pays out $149 million in benefits for miners suffering from black-lung disease. Joe Biden’s American Rescue Plan, meanwhile, provided $200 million in new funding for the Mine Safety and Health Administration. Finally, $4 billion of the Inflation Reduction Act’s clean-energy funding is reserved exclusively for projects in communities with closed coal mines or retired coal power plants so as to provide employment opportunities for jobless miners."

nymag.com

Oliver Anthony and the Incoherence of Right-Wing Populism

When working people direct their class resentments at “the obese milkin’ welfare,” rich men north (and south) of Richmond make out like bandits.
nymag.com nymag.com

Ultimately it's a fella who has diagnosed the major failings of American capitalism, but thrown in some prejudice and a very prominent RW conspiracy theory on top. His solution of 'lower taxes' is also, conveniently, the right wing one.

It's a scream into the void, it's not a call to arms.
 
LaPennaBianca said:
I don't think the song is cynical - I think he genuinely means what he says. His personal history sounds like he's been through it and I understand a lot of what he's going through. The fact that it's useful to a lot of quite unsavoury characters (Matt Walsh etc) is, imho, incidental.

However, I can't get on with the lyrics. His argument is that a distant elite are overtaxing 'good people' for the benefit of 'undeserving' people. I don't agree with that and it turns my stomach a bit.

If you're explicitly demonising these people on welfare in one line and then saying "people like me and people like you" as a calls to arms the next, you're coopting the language of solidarity.

Intelligencer had a good piece on this. Especially on the miners/minors bit.

"In fact, last year, every Democrat in Congress voted for legislation that ensured permanent funding for the Black Lung Disability Trust Fund, which pays out $149 million in benefits for miners suffering from black-lung disease. Joe Biden’s American Rescue Plan, meanwhile, provided $200 million in new funding for the Mine Safety and Health Administration. Finally, $4 billion of the Inflation Reduction Act’s clean-energy funding is reserved exclusively for projects in communities with closed coal mines or retired coal power plants so as to provide employment opportunities for jobless miners."

nymag.com

Oliver Anthony and the Incoherence of Right-Wing Populism

When working people direct their class resentments at “the obese milkin’ welfare,” rich men north (and south) of Richmond make out like bandits.
nymag.com nymag.com

Ultimately it's a fella who has diagnosed the major failings of American capitalism, but thrown in some prejudice and a very prominent RW conspiracy theory on top. His solution of 'lower taxes' is also, conveniently, the right wing one.

It's a scream into the void, it's not a call to arms.
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Or lower taxes for the low paid and higher taxes for the wealthy?
People do also get agitated when they see abuse of benefits going on around them.

My own view has always been I would far rather a society that tolerates an element of system abuse by cynical opportunists, if this ensures that everybody who is in need is protected, supported and given opportunity.
And those with huge income and extreme wealth should fund this most.

His song may have been hijacked by the far right, but we should not let them soil it.
 
What is the paedophile “conspiracy” LPB? Not sure I’ve understood that. Something to do with Epstein?

When I heard the song, I wasn’t sure if his line about the obese was meant to be taken as how some people “think”, but not necessarily how he does. He does talk immediately after about young men putting themselves six feet underground because the country keeps kicking them down. I wondered if the lines are linked.

In fairness, if he really does have beef with the obese, then that’s a very large proportion (40%!) of Americans who probably can’t like the song. He’s saying how can any American be starving when some folk are being kept in fudge by welfare. It’s not a nice sentiment but you can sort of see what he means.

Trump will have a hard time latching on to this one too, given he’s rich, a man, and definitely from north of Richmond, Virginia. A perfect example of how populism works, elitists creating an illusion that some other elite is failing the working man/woman.

Personally, I think it’s best to try not to view the song as political statements and just hear it as a heartfelt account of someone’s feelings. It doesn’t really matter which way he votes, it’s not like he’s advocating the KKK. It’s a rant from a bloke who works in a factory, rather than an economist or a philosopher.

Still powerful, imho, and symptomatic of the times.
 
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LaPennaBianca said:
Ultimately, Right Wing populism like this reinforces the rich-poor divide as it lets the wealthy off the hook by finding scapegoats like the 'undeserving poor', migrants or sexual/ethnic minorities to demonise.

It perpetuates the cycle as, once these groups are 'punished', nothing actually changes as they weren't at fault to begin with. Meaning new targets need to be found for why The People continue to suffer. The rich may be identified as a problem, but no meaningful action is ever taken.
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Exactly this, well said.
 
atypical_boro said:
What is the paedophile “conspiracy” LPB? Not sure I’ve understood that. Something to do with Epstein?
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Yes, the line:

"I wish politicians would look out for miners, and not just minors on an island somewhere,"

A definite reference to Epstein.

Which is the classic RW 'all politicians are the same' trope. In reality, as outlined in the quote from the intelligencer article I linked to earlier, certain politicians are doing a lot for miners.
 
LaPennaBianca said:
Yes, the line:

"I wish politicians would look out for miners, and not just minors on an island somewhere,"

A definite reference to Epstein.

Which is the classic RW 'all politicians are the same' trope. In reality, as outlined in the quote from the intelligencer article I linked to earlier, certain politicians are doing a lot for miners.
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Hard to believe some people hear the words but don't know what they mean. It's hardly hidden is it?

The singer is likely a plant from tptb to deflect the workers ire onto people one rung below the ladder from them. MAGA idiots there and Gammons here will lap it up.
 
ThePrisoner said:
Hard to believe some people hear the words but don't know what they mean. It's hardly hidden is it?

The singer is likely a plant from tptb to deflect the workers ire onto people one rung below the ladder from them. MAGA idiots there and Gammons here will lap it up.
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Its *probably* a thinly-veiled reference to the QAnon conspiracy isn't it? Not that many people in the UK are especially clued up on QAnon. I have a basic understanding myself. My initial thought when I heard the lyric was that it could just be about immigration generally. I'm not going to deduce automatically that he is a massive believer in QAnon or supporter of Trump.

I think people often forget that half the time songwriters chuck stuff in just because it rhymes or fits the melody. Especially people like this who are filming songs on their phone without the backing of a record label.

Your final sentence is its own conspiracy theory isn't it?
 
atypical_boro said:
Its *probably* a possibly a thinly-veiled reference to the QAnon conspiracy isn't it? Not that many people in the UK are especially clued up on QAnon. I have a basic understanding myself. My initial thought when I heard the lyric was that it could just be about immigration generally. I'm not going to deduce automatically that he is a massive believer in QAnon or supporter of Trump.

I think people often forget that half the time songwriters chuck stuff in just because it rhymes or fits the melody. Especially people like this who are filming songs on their phone without the backing of a record label.

Your final sentence is its own conspiracy theory isn't it?
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It's clearly a reference to Epstein and, by extension, QAnon.

Final sentence is based on who would benefit from blaming people's ills on people even poorer than themselves, thereby deflecting from the real issues. It's the same ploy used by the tories here but the UK electorate aren't quite as thick as the American one as it it clearly failing here now.
 
ThePrisoner said:
It's clearly a reference to Epstein and, by extension, QAnon.
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What percentage of people around the world would you say even know what QAnon is? The guy singing the song might not even know exactly what it is, even if he's heard something about Jeffrey Epstein's island that fits nicely into the song.
 
atypical_boro said:
What percentage of people around the world would you say even know what QAnon is? The guy singing the song might not even know exactly what it is, even if he's heard something about Jeffrey Epstein's island that fits nicely into the song.
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I don't know what % of people know about QAnon but I am pretty confident most MAGA do.

So, your argument is the guy doesn't know what he's talking about but the words fit nicely so that's why he used them?

Er whut? :D
 
ThePrisoner said:
I don't know what % of people know about QAnon but I am pretty confident most MAGA do.

So, your argument is the guy doesn't know what he's talking about but the words fit nicely so that's why he used them?

Er whut? :D
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I just think you’re taking the song quite cynically. Songwriters don’t always mean every word of a song literally. He used the word “Lord” but can we say for certain he’s religious? I’d also guess he doesn’t JUST have a problem with those born due north of Richmond, Virginia and that maybe this too wasn’t meant to be taken entirely literally either.

But you’ve effectively said the song was written for him by “tbtp” (Trump? Biden? who?) so, if you’re right on that, maybe the song should be taken as literally as you suggest.

But Christ, I thought I was cynical. You’re putting me in the shade on this one!

Also interesting is how people nowadays will jump on one or two lines of a song to discount its “validity”, almost immediately making it about identity politics.

One of the Beatles’ most famous songs was entirely a relentless attack on Labour’s taxation policy. Imagine if they released that now. Doubt any artist would dare.

Anyway, good song I thought. I understood the very basic sentiment of it, whether or not he shares the exact same opinions as me.
 
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Was Epstein a conspiracy? Who did Maxwell traffic to? ( the "list") - looks more facty than conspiracy per se - it seems pretty clear to me of intent - lots of time,effort,mis/disinformation given to Epstein Island and activities- and who exactly was " entertained" there. No surprise to see the media are now digging deep into him and, say his choice of videos for playlist. All highly dodgy apparently.

I have watched all sorts of videos, some I agree with,and some not ( balance ) - if we do be judged by what we watch, then that's kind of a thin part of a wedge.
In any other time - it would just be a quaint,plaintive song - but today in these highly polarised time, a cause for much gnashing of teeth ( or mass cheering ) depending on ones current view.
 
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