Red faction statement.. ticket prices

[Nano]

i was really hoping that the chaeacter assisinatiions would end last week and lessons would be learned when Mark M walked after the online blitz he received.
Gibson hosted the launch of the labour campaign for Tees Valley Mayor at the Riverside,!

"Hosting" means he was there and part of it. Was he? Did he invite him and offer it for free? I don't know, I'm genuinely asking.

Allowing someone to rent a space and facilities for a fee is not the same thing. He might not have even known it was happening. I presume he doesn't get into the minutiae of who is hiring the space for small scale events.

Doubt PE would not have printed it if it were not true - usually extremely careful about this sort of thing.

Gibson seems to have lost the plot over the last few years, turning Tory, jumping into bed with the likes of Houchen...... certainly lost a lot of supporters respect off the back of this.

Lot of the current issues will no doubt stem from this total change of attitude - or dare I say adopting a Tory attitude - towards loyal paying fans.

Bit grim at present.

This is my biggest issue. There is next to no thought in what is best for the fans. Every decision appears to move further towards a purely numerical one in extracting as much from fans as possible. If he wants to sell the message that we are a community club then there needs to be actions along with words. On ticket sales there are two options, maximising revenue or maximising attendance. The vast number of empty seats we've had over the last 20 years shows that it is revenue which is more important. That and asking fans to pay for his mistakes, paying low wages instead of a living wage, skimping on technology, low quality merchandise at premium prices, always taking the cheap option etc. It's all very much a Tory approach.

That shouldn't be seen as an insult even if you'd consider it one yourself. He is literally the definition of a Tory these days, works alongside them and asks Boro fans to vote for them. He's one of us in the sense that he is also a Boro fan but he's not one of us in any other sense anymore.

 

[MikeSkinner]

i was really hoping that the chaeacter assisinatiions would end last week and lessons would be learned when Mark M walked after the online blitz he received.
Gibson hosted the launch of the labour campaign for Tees Valley Mayor at the Riverside,!

To be honest, Labour now is just Diet Tory anyway!

 

[Unravel_Morrison]

I don't mind him having different political affiliations or preferences, but I do think he's a different guy to the saviour of the 1980's, because why wouldn't he? A few hundred million in the bank would change any of us.

He does treat people badly though; like lots of wealthy people do. He has contempt for the paying fans as demonstrated by throwing one of our most loyal fans out of the director's lounge a few years ago, as fans don't belong there.

 

[Duffman]

Chris McKewan did publicly thank Steve Gibson at his launch event for Mayor and the launch didn’t only extend to a room but also all the electronic signage around the ground carried the Labour Candidates messages. It was quite a sight to see it emblazoned around the whole ground.

 

[viv_andersons_nana]

I don't mind him having different political affiliations or preferences, but I do think he's a different guy to the saviour of the 1980's, because why wouldn't he? A few hundred million in the bank would change any of us.

He does treat people badly though; like lots of wealthy people do. He has contempt for the paying fans as demonstrated by throwing one of our most loyal fans out of the director's lounge a few years ago, as fans don't belong there.

At the risk of this thread also being locked, taken down, whatever, what’s that about the loyal fan and the director’s lounge? I’ve never heard that before.

 

[Unravel_Morrison]

i was really hoping that the chaeacter assisinatiions would end last week and lessons would be learned when Mark M walked after the online blitz he received.
Gibson hosted the launch of the labour campaign for Tees Valley Mayor at the Riverside,!

That's irrelevant. I don't think Gibson is suddenly interested in employment law, even though 'he' is hosting the Employment Law Landscape event in a couple of weeks.

 

[fmttmadmin]

"Hosting" means he was there and part of it. Was he? Did he invite him and offer it for free? I don't know, I'm genuinely asking.

Allowing someone to rent a space and facilities for a fee is not the same thing. He might not have even known it was happening. I presume he doesn't get into the minutiae of who is hiring the space for small scale events.


This is my biggest issue. There is next to no thought in what is best for the fans. Every decision appears to move further towards a purely numerical one in extracting as much from fans as possible. If he wants to sell the message that we are a community club then there needs to be actions along with words. On ticket sales there are two options, maximising revenue or maximising attendance. The vast number of empty seats we've had over the last 20 years shows that it is revenue which is more important. That and asking fans to pay for his mistakes, paying low wages instead of a living wage, skimping on technology, low quality merchandise at premium prices, always taking the cheap option etc. It's all very much a Tory approach.

That shouldn't be seen as an insult even if you'd consider it one yourself. He is literally the definition of a Tory these days, works alongside them and asks Boro fans to vote for them. He's one of us in the sense that he is also a Boro fan but he's not one of us in any other sense anymore.

I take your point about "hosting". Yeah, I was perhaps jumping to conclusions also.

 

[Redwurzel]

Watching QT last time I thought Lammy and Wasri were in the same party - no difference betwen Labour and Conservative on most issues from what they said

I do agree with Nano on a micro level MFC is run to create a significant surplus opposed to pleasing the fans with low ticket prices for example - so in Germany (at a similar club to Boro - say its £22 to sit and at Boro £32. But at a macro level MFC does lose money year after year which is not a capitalist/tory way of operating. If anything its the players who are the biggest capitalists as they represent a pretty enormous cost to Championship clubs

 

[fmttmadmin]

Watching QT last time I thought Lammy and Wasri were in the same party - no difference betwen Labour and Conservative on most issues from what they said

I do agree with Nano on a micro level MFC is run to create a significant surplus opposed to pleasing the fans with low ticket prices for example - so in Germany (at a similar club to Boro - say its £22 to sit and at Boro £32. But at a macro level MFC does lose money year after year which is not a capitalist/tory way of operating. If anything its the players who are the biggest capitalists as they represent a pretty enormous cost to Championship clubs

But surely the books show conclusively that no money is taken out of Boro it is re-circulated.

 

[Nano]

Watching QT last time I thought Lammy and Wasri were in the same party - no difference betwen Labour and Conservative on most issues from what they said

I do agree with Nano on a micro level MFC is run to create a significant surplus opposed to pleasing the fans with low ticket prices for example - so in Germany (at a similar club to Boro - say its £22 to sit and at Boro £32. But at a macro level MFC does lose money year after year which is not a capitalist/tory way of operating. If anything its the players who are the biggest capitalists as they represent a pretty enormous cost to Championship clubs

It's very possible he has what appears to be a Tory attitude without him even thinking he does. His intention might be to do what is best for the people of Teesside but because he lives in a rich blokes bubble he is out of touch and doesn't understand. You can have good intentions and be ignorant of the reality. He doesn't sit in the regular stands so is unaware of the service in the concourses, he doesn't buy club merchandise so he doesn't know it is dreadful quality, he is a multi-millionaire so he doesn't realise there is such a big difference between £20 and £30 for a ticket etc

He might be losing money each year via the club but maybe it is worth it to him. It reduces the tax he pays on profits he's not losing all of what is recorded, if we get to the PL again the value of the club skyrockets and he could recoup those losses anyway and maybe he just sees it as a form of power. He uses his position to influence things. It gets him access to politicians and seats on development corporations etc. That is something rich people pay for. Maybe it's worth paying to hear fans singing your name. There are lots of people like Gibson throughout the country that are worth a lot of money but have no fame/power/kudos and maybe that is something he sees as worth paying for. Or maybe he really is altruistic but just misguided and out of touch.

 

[Redwurzel]

Steve Gibson looks after Steve Gibson thats why he has been successful in business. Control seems very important to him and the feeling of making big decisions and power that comes with that. Having so much control also probably makes him feel secure which is probably a big driver for him too.

He's not unique there are plenty of other owners that are very similar.

To me its about having a chairman that is ambitious and commerically sensible too and who has a long term passion for the club to do well and Steve ticks those boxes. He does not have to be the fans friend, but be aware of their needs, as a collective.

Time has shown us Steve has no magical powers when it comes to buying players or selecting managers, he is human. However I do think the Club is in a better position that they were say in the early 70s when I became a fan and driectors would not take risks to get the Club promoted until they appointed Big Jack. I also think it a bit harder now for the North East Clubs as the centre of football gravity has moved to the major cities, particularly London and Manchester.

 

[LessoftheLip]

Gibson hosted the launch of the labour campaign for Tees Valley Mayor at the Riverside,!

Gibson personally or did the commercial arm of MFC simply hire space to Chris McEwan?

 

[viv_andersons_nana]

Steve Gibson looks after Steve Gibson thats why he has been successful in business. Control seems very important to him and the feeling of making big decisions and power that comes with that. Having so much control also probably makes him feel secure which is probably a big driver for him too.

He's not unique there are plenty of other owners that are very similar.

To me its about having a chairman that is ambitious and commerically sensible too and who has a long term passion for the club to do well and Steve ticks those boxes. He does not have to be the fans friend, but be aware of their needs, as a collective.

Time has shown us Steve has no magical powers when it comes to buying players or selecting managers, he is human. However I do think the Club is in a better position that they were say in the early 70s when I became a fan and driectors would not take risks to get the Club promoted until they appointed Big Jack. I also think it a bit harder now for the North East Clubs as the centre of football gravity has moved to the major cities, particularly London and Manchester.

I’m not sure I would call the team playing in front of thousands of empty seats for much of the last fifteen years ‘commercially sensible’ tbh. There has been absolutely no attempt to address that or grow the fan base, generating further revenue streams.

Are we any further forward now than we were in, say, 2009? Or 2014? Or 2020? I would say we aren’t. Not really. In fact the only things that have really changed from 2009 or 2014 is that the TVs are now positioned in the east stand and most of the noise comes from the south. Oh and the new suits in the director’s box, of course. How could I forget those.

 

[LessoftheLip]

Watching QT last time I thought Lammy and Wasri were in the same party - no difference betwen Labour and Conservative on most issues from what they said

Sayeeda Warsi is not liked by Conservatives because she doesn't blindly espouse typical Conservative values.
If you saw no difference between them then it's likely that Warsi is closer to Labour values than Lammy is to Conservative values.

 

[Nano]

Steve Gibson looks after Steve Gibson thats why he has been successful in business. Control seems very important to him and the feeling of making big decisions and power that comes with that. Having so much control also probably makes him feel secure which is probably a big driver for him too.

He's not unique there are plenty of other owners that are very similar.

To me its about having a chairman that is ambitious and commerically sensible too and who has a long term passion for the club to do well and Steve ticks those boxes. He does not have to be the fans friend, but be aware of their needs, as a collective.

Time has shown us Steve has no magical powers when it comes to buying players or selecting managers, he is human. However I do think the Club is in a better position that they were say in the early 70s when I became a fan and driectors would not take risks to get the Club promoted until they appointed Big Jack. I also think it a bit harder now for the North East Clubs as the centre of football gravity has moved to the major cities, particularly London and Manchester.

The control/power is probably his biggest failing. It is a different industry to when he first took over and I don't believe that running a club effectively can be done part time. His other biggest failing is either not hiring the right people to achieve success or hiring them but not giving them the responsibility and set clear goals. We are still run like a large version of a local sunday league side instead of a major player in a global industry. We have failed to modernise, failed to grow and failed to capture the market on our door.

He should probably be far more hands off and appoint people that understand the business to run it properly. When I watched the Sunderland Netflix documentary it was so obvious that the people in charge had no idea how to run a football club. They got everything wrong. Then I reflect on who is doing those jobs at our club and we've got people like Neil Bausor who's previous experience was managing at ICI which is exactly the same situation. We've heard about the problems the ticket guy had when he tried to change things. Gibson appointed Scott to carry out a footballing strategy and then immediately signed a manager in Wilder who didn't fit that strategy. It all points to him being unable to relinquish control and/or hire people that will stand up to him.

 

[Redwurzel]

Jackie Milburn would be 100 in May, if he was still with us.

Oops wrong thread for that one - It was meant for the Geordie last domestic trophy celebration night.

Ref Boro on the decline posts

Back in 2013/4 I seem to remember 18k was typical crowd at the Riverside, so if a lot of stadium is empty now ,how much was empty then - crowds are up around 45%? Our average attendance must be in the top 6 of the Championship.
Away from home its similar too - I have never known the Boro sell out 6 away LC games on the trot. 12 away sell outs so far this season.
The Club have improved the corporate areas of the Stadium, added a large screen, improved the web site and social media, digitalised the ticketing (for those who wanted it digitalised), rent out the stadium for a major summer concerts, worked to improve accessibility by road such as road bridge over the Dock. The Foundation and Education staff seem to do more work than ever to engage local communities and have won National Prizes for their work.
I am sure the Club are not perfect and can improve some aspects, but as said and evidenced the Club is not declining over a 10 year plus time horizon.

 

[Muttley]

Good lord this thread is full of flights of fantasy and invention!

The control/power is probably his biggest failing

Really? You know him personally or are you attributing personality traits to someone based on your extrapolation of known facts augmented with tittle-tattle and gossip?

Control seems very important to him and the feeling of making big decisions and power that comes with that.

Could you show your working out here?

He has contempt for the paying fans as demonstrated by throwing one of our most loyal fans out of the director's lounge a few years ago, as fans don't belong there.

As someone else asked, never heard of this incident before! But if I wander into the Director's Lounge uninvited I would confidently expect to be asked to leave. Just because I have followed this club and team for over half a century I have no right to wander uninvited there or the dressing rooms or even the cleaner's cupboard...

I could go on but I'm going out. Just an observation really.

Carry on.