PR will not be in the new Labour manifesto

Jedi boro said:
Just because some one votes in a certain way doesn’t make them thick, that’s democracy. I hate the tories with a passion but I will defend anyones right to vote for them.
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Yes, everyone has a democratic right to vote for whoever they want to, but for democracy to work effectively the people voting need to be rational actors.

If you don't vote in your own best interest due to a lack of understanding (whether through poor education, media propaganda, self-delusion, whatever) then democracy has failed despite the process being democratic.

Democracy relies heavily on people having the unadulterated truth. The system fails a basic democracy test if lies are allowed to go unchallenged by the people who are supposed to be reliable witnesses to 'truth'. Once the media classes betray the populace you can't have a functioning democracy.

It doesn't make you thick to believe the lies. You are stupid to continue believing them despite being told they are lies, though.
 
asredastheycome said:
It is feel free to vote green. Whether it counts or not is another question. It's still a democracy even though others vote different to you.
If we had PR how would the Greens fare. Serious question.
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The easy answer as to how un democratic FPTP is, why did UKIP get over 3 million votes and not have 1 MP and yet the Tories get an 84 seat overall majority with only 14 million votes?
 
Scrote said:
Democracy relies heavily on people having the unadulterated truth. The system fails a basic democracy test if lies are allowed to go unchallenged by the people who are supposed to be reliable witnesses to 'truth'. Once the media classes betray the populace you can't have a functioning democracy.
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And PR would allow politicians to tell the truth - ie represent their real views - more often without worrying about it being a vote loser. Take the last German GE. After negotiations took place three parties formed a coalition. One of those parties included legalising Cannabis in their manifesto and they got that policy accepted as part of the deal. Over here a party running for office on that policy would get slaughtered but over there they were able to attract enough votes to pe included in the coalition and so a significant minority of people feel that their vote was not wasted. There will be countless other examples no doubt.
 
This is what people mean when they say that politicians are all the same. Instead of doing something that benefits the people at the expense of themselves they deliberately choose not to do it because they sometimes benefit from it. The two big parties love the current system because they get to be in power or at least be relevant permanently. They get cushy cabinet/shadow positions without even trying.

They are all the same because they put self interest above anything else. Sure, some people (particularly Tories), push the limits of what they can get away with much further than others but the vast majority of them are in it for themselves.
 
Anyone thinking Starmer or any other Labour Leader would offer PR is sadly mistaken or hasn't been paying attention. I don't recall even the sainted Jeremy offering it? FPTP is the banker for the two main parties. The only way we can hope to get PR (and I do think we need it) is a Lib-Lab+others "Anti-Tory" pact resulting from a hung parliament
 
Boroboyyo said:
Don’t know why Labour would support PR ?

Fptp heavily favours Labour already . A 1% polls lead used to secure a Labour majority , whereas the tories needed a 5-6% poll lead. Think the tories want to address this imbalance , but there is no reason for Labour to want to scrap fptp

One I think of is the 2005 general election . Labour only had 800,000 more votes than the tories but had like 160 more seats than that them
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But there are many seats down south with massive Tory majorities where Labour (and other) voters just don’t bother because there is no point.

In reality we do not know what the percentages would be if every vote counted.
 
PR will be all over the next Labour manifesto. But electoral reform won't be and I don't know why people on here ever thought it would be. We were given an opportunity to vote for electoral reform a few years ago and you voted substantially against it, and that includes some on this thread who have been calling for 'PR' since.
 
Capybara said:
PR will be all over the next Labour manifesto. But electoral reform won't be and I don't know why people on here ever thought it would be. We were given an opportunity to vote for electoral reform a few years ago and you voted substantially against it, and that includes some on this thread who have been calling for 'PR' since.
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Somebody will be along soon to explain what was offered wasn’t really PR
 
Manifestos are so millennial

In shorts
Put in you manifestos something that helps you get elected
Get elected
Do what you want
 
There is not one party worth voting for. They are all a sham and do not represent my interests or mirror my concerns.

I have voted in every ge so far since the age of 18 but I cannot ever see myself voting again.

The political landscape in this country is an absolute disgrace (and I do not use that term lightly).
 
Labour & Tories both campaigned against PR last time it was offered, both benefit from the current system..

We need a complete change of system, not just a change of party in power..

Too many labour just seek power too..
 
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