Post Corbyn Labour- an utter betrayal

[Trug]

These rats turned Labour into the Tories . What the fk for?

‘Corbyn had flown too close to the sun’: how Labour insiders battled the left and plotted the party’s path back to power

Exclusive extract from new book says Corbyn’s appearance at Glastonbury was a key moment in the party’s long way back to power. And as one anti-Corbyn group tried to build a moderate coalition, it also needed a credible leader …

www.theguardian.com

 

[LessoftheLip]

These rats turned Labour into the Tories . What the fk for?

‘Corbyn had flown too close to the sun’: how Labour insiders battled the left and plotted the party’s path back to power

Exclusive extract from new book says Corbyn’s appearance at Glastonbury was a key moment in the party’s long way back to power. And as one anti-Corbyn group tried to build a moderate coalition, it also needed a credible leader …

www.theguardian.com

Give it a rest and move on.

 

[Trug]

Give it a rest a move on.

We can't change history but it is nice to listen to other opinions, views etc. No different to talking about Boro teams in the past.

 

[johnsmithsno2]

Unelectable. So all the Corbyn fantasists handed us Johnson.

 

[ChrisChefYork]

These rats turned Labour into the Tories . What the fk for?

‘Corbyn had flown too close to the sun’: how Labour insiders battled the left and plotted the party’s path back to power

Exclusive extract from new book says Corbyn’s appearance at Glastonbury was a key moment in the party’s long way back to power. And as one anti-Corbyn group tried to build a moderate coalition, it also needed a credible leader …

www.theguardian.com

Problem is, a real left wing party will never ever be voted in. UK is far too Conservative in general.

 

[boringblock_21]

Problem is, a real left wing party will never ever be voted in. UK is far too Conservative in general.

I’m not completely certain I agree with this statement. I’ll tell you why.

First let me state clearly, I am not a fan of Corbyn, nor was I during his leadership. I consider him an inept leader who cost the left the chance of governing with his inability to compromise and deliver effective, election winning communication.

Nonetheless, his performance in 2017 was spectacular. For the purpose of simple analysis, I will use Blair’s election in 97 as a “start point” because it corresponds to possibly the best high water mark for Labour in living memory. With that in mind, we can say that no Labour leader since Blair in 97 accumulated more votes than Corbyn did in 2017, and even in percentage terms the share of the vote was Labours best since 2001. Corbyns 2019 performance, considered disastrous by most, still allowed Labour to register more votes than at every election since 01.

The point? There are plenty of Brits who are not conservative. But, equally, plenty who are. However this doesn’t mean the left can’t win elections. I think the trick is not to motivate those who are conservative to vote… which, in my opinion, Corbyn was very bad at doing.

 

[equaliser]

I’m not completely certain I agree with this statement. I’ll tell you why.

First let me state clearly, I am not a fan of Corbyn, nor was I during his leadership. I consider him an inept leader who cost the left the chance of governing with his inability to compromise and deliver effective, election winning communication.

Nonetheless, his performance in 2017 was spectacular. For the purpose of simple analysis, I will use Blair’s election in 97 as a “start point” because it corresponds to possibly the best high water mark for Labour in living memory. With that in mind, we can say that no Labour leader since Blair in 97 accumulated more votes than Corbyn did in 2017, and even in percentage terms the share of the vote was Labours best since 2001. Corbyns 2019 performance, considered disastrous by most, still allowed Labour to register more votes than at every election since 01.

The point? There are plenty of Brits who are not conservative. But, equally, plenty who are. However this doesn’t mean the left can’t win elections. I think the trick is not to motivate those who are conservative to vote… which, in my opinion, Corbyn was very bad at doing.

A fair analysis, but I think the effect of Brexit makes it hard to fit those elections into an overall pattern. Without doubt. if we had PR we would have a much truer picture of people's allegiances. Corbyn was an authentically terrible leader though. His communication improved, yes, but from a very low bar.

 

[Gramsci]

Total Labour votes:
2017 12,877 million
2019 10,269 million
2024 9,704 million

Blame the electoral system.

 

[newyddion]

Corbyn’s big red flags to the right wing Labour MPs and the MSM were..

Protecting the NHS in terms of nationalisation/privatisation.
- lots of MPs with their fingers in the private healthcare pie.. lots of money to be made.

Recognising the state of Palestine
- this was the big one.. Labour friends of Isreal and folks wanting to wipe Palestine off the face of the earth are plentiful.. and powerful.

 

[The_Unicorn]

Corbyn’s big red flags to the right wing Labour MPs and the MSM were..

Protecting the NHS in terms of nationalisation/privatisation.
- lots of MPs with their fingers in the private healthcare pie.. lots of money to be made.

Recognising the state of Palestine
- this was the big one.. Labour friends of Isreal and folks wanting to wipe Palestine off the face of the earth are plentiful.. and powerful.

Don't think Labour friends of Isreal give a toss whether Palestine exists or not so long as they benefit from being part of the gang.

 

[Corcaigh_the_Cat]

Total Labour votes:
2017 12,877 million
2019 10,269 million
2024 9,704 million

Blame the electoral system.

The truth that is always brushed under the carpet. Labour are less popular than they were under Corbyn.

 

[Scrote]

Give it a rest and move on.

Yeah. While we're at it we should move on from the corruption surrounding Brexit and Covid. None of it matters now.

 

[Kaluzny]

Incredible how many people still churn out the ‘Corbyn was unelectable’ rhetoric when he got more votes than Starmer both times he ran.

 

[RavsFan]

Incredible how many people still churn out the ‘Corbyn was unelectable’ rhetoric when he got more votes than Starmer both times he ran.

He was not elected against a backdrop of May and Johnson. I suspect this will drag on even if he popped his clogs.

 

[TeaCider]

Total Labour votes:
2017 12,877 million
2019 10,269 million
2024 9,704 million

Blame the electoral system.

Turnout was down massively across the board from the previous elections though.

2017 - 13,636,684 million Tory votes.
2019 - 13,966,454 million Tory votes
2024 - 6,828,925 million Tory votes

It's only in 2024 where the near certainty of a Labour victory left millions totally confident to vote for other parties or to not turn out at all.
1.3 million more people voted for the Greens in 2024 than in 2017, despite total turnout being down by nearly 4 million people.

 

[Scrote]

He was not elected against a backdrop of May and Johnson. I suspect this will drag on even if he popped his clogs.

I might be reading this wrong but are you suggesting that Starmer had a more difficult task against Truss and Sunak (and a disintegrating Tory party) than Corbyn did against May (calling an election to strengthen her position given the then current polling) and Johnson (reducing the election to "Get Brexit Done" whilst the Labour-right were inventing an antisemitism crisis)?

 

[LessoftheLip]

Incredible how many people still churn out the ‘Corbyn was unelectable’ rhetoric when he got more votes than Starmer both times he ran.

Not this rubbish again. He lost, twice.

 

[LessoftheLip]

Yeah. While we're at it we should move on from the corruption surrounding Brexit and Covid. None of it matters now.

Had any more thoughts on how I obviously benefit from maintaining the status-quo?

 

[Lottowyn]

Incredible how many people still churn out the ‘Corbyn was unelectable’ rhetoric when he got more votes than Starmer both times he ran.

Surely Starmer was there in all 3 elections you mention.

 

[FishofContemplation]

I’m not completely certain I agree with this statement. I’ll tell you why.

First let me state clearly, I am not a fan of Corbyn, nor was I during his leadership. I consider him an inept leader who cost the left the chance of governing with his inability to compromise and deliver effective, election winning communication.

Nonetheless, his performance in 2017 was spectacular. For the purpose of simple analysis, I will use Blair’s election in 97 as a “start point” because it corresponds to possibly the best high water mark for Labour in living memory. With that in mind, we can say that no Labour leader since Blair in 97 accumulated more votes than Corbyn did in 2017, and even in percentage terms the share of the vote was Labours best since 2001. Corbyns 2019 performance, considered disastrous by most, still allowed Labour to register more votes than at every election since 01.

The point? There are plenty of Brits who are not conservative. But, equally, plenty who are. However this doesn’t mean the left can’t win elections. I think the trick is not to motivate those who are conservative to vote… which, in my opinion, Corbyn was very bad at doing.

I think that’s not a bad analysis, but you should possibly go further and say that it is possible to be of the left provided you don’t frighten the centre too much, and ideally persuade some of them you’re the better option so they vote for you.

Everything is relative, and by the standards of Thatcher’s Britain the first Blair term did much that was commendable and a fair bit that would’ve been seen as quite radical. Many of the things I demonstrated for as a firebrand 80’s student got their boxes ticked in that first labour term. The programme was radical enough for Major’s main line of attack to be to suggest that Blair was in fact just a dangerous old lefty in disguise (the devil eyes advert for instance). That Labour managed to carry that platform, not only without frightening the horses, but almost without being noticed, was the key.

Of course, the legacy was distorted somewhat by the snouts in the trough corruption of the later terms and by the Iraq war. But there was genuine excitement in the early Blair months, even for an unreconstructed lefty like me. If you want a trivial but telling compare and contrast there is no more blatant illustration of the difference than the first priority of Blair’s Chancellor, even before the budget, to introduce the winter fuel payment for Britain’s pensioners, and the first priority of Starmer’s, even before the budget, to take it off them again. You do not have to shaft the old, the poor and the disadvantaged to be a Labour government. It’s still a choice.