Peston reckons that Boris is about to

Andy_W said:
You seem to name him in a lot of posts and single him out quite a lot, then you complained when he stood up for himself.
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That’s the way I saw it too. He would relentlessly post things about ME. Not the topic I was discussing, but actual personal things about me. He actually still does, despite the warnings. He doesn’t understand why this could be construed as bullying
 
BoroMart said:
If you buy a BMW 3 series for 30K and your neighbour buys the same model but negotiates it for 28k, you still get exactly the same product. The only difference is they have got better value than you.

If we paid more, then that's a failure of our negotiation and unless the contract specifically states any other customer paying less than us will receive vaccines after us then no, we shouldn't expect to be treated better. Boris was banging on about free market capitalism yesterday, this is an example of how it works.
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I was going to say 28k isn't necessarily better before I read your second paragraph, but that's the key, the negotiated price doesn't mean a lot, as this alone does not quantify its value.

If you pay more but get it sooner, then great, good call as the benefit may outweigh any cost (this is where we were at)
If you pay more but get it sooner until some other buyers appear, then it's a good call whilst you've beat everyone else, but then develops into poorer value (this is probably where we're at now)

I don't for one second think that there would be a clause that we got every dose first, as no supplier in their right mind would ever agree to this, nobody would even ask for it as they would get laughed out of the door.

Anyone that thinks "we got our order in first, we should get our goods first, the rest should wait" needs to spend some time on negotiating contracts, as it's not the same as ordering a pizza.
 
SmallTown said:
That’s the way I saw it too. He would relentlessly post things about ME. Not the topic I was discussing, but actual personal things about me. He actually still does, despite the warnings. He doesn’t understand why this could be construed as bullying
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Looks to me like you get singled out (by many, often off-topic or adding nothing to the thread) then people complain when you fight back, strange.

Keep standing up for yourself (y)
 
Andy_W said:
I was going to say 28k isn't necessarily better before I read your second paragraph, but that's the key, the negotiated price doesn't mean a lot, as this alone does not quantify its value.

If you pay more but get it sooner, then great, good call as the benefit may outweigh any cost (this is where we were at)
If you pay more but get it sooner until some other buyers appear, then it's a good call whilst you've beat everyone else, but then develops into poorer value (this is probably where we're at now)

I don't for one second think that there would be a clause that we got every dose first, as no supplier in their right mind would ever agree to this, nobody would even ask for it as they would get laughed out of the door.

Anyone that thinks "we got our order in first, we should get our goods first, the rest should wait" needs to spend some time on negotiating contracts, as it's not the same as ordering a pizza.
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Yet you're contradicting what Soriot - the head of AZ has said himself regarding the contract the UK sign with the company.

www.theguardian.com

Head of AstraZeneca rejects calls for UK vaccine to be diverted to EU

Chief executive of pharmaceutical giant says the firm will honour UK’s earlier contract despite EU anger over shortfall
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
I've read that the reason the EU signed up to the vaccine contracts later than the UK was because they emphasised cheapness over speed, so the wrangling over price delayed the signing of the contracts. So they got cheap and we got fast.
 
Pak_Doo_Ik said:
Unfortunately, that is how Capitalism works, imagine if we'd paid the same as other countries and it was discovered that if we had paid just 5 Euros a shot more we could be ahead of the ball game vaccinating our population, how would the public have reacted?
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It is how capitalism works IF, you pay for extra and it is contractually secured...it doesn't seem to be the case.
 
zaphod said:
I've read that the reason the EU signed up to the vaccine contracts later than the UK was because they emphasised cheapness over speed, so the wrangling over price delayed the signing of the contracts. So they got cheap and we got fast.
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The truth will never be clear on this because there is so much rhetoric, PR and protectionism going on from both sides.
 
Andy_W said:
Anyone that thinks "we got our order in first, we should get our goods first, the rest should wait" needs to spend some time on negotiating contracts, as it's not the same as ordering a pizza.
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I once ordered KFC for 25 people for an impromptu house party, guess what, some people who ordered after me, received their meals before me. 🤷‍♂️
 
note to self: never come to a football message board for well researched, educated debate on UK or EU policy.

The generalism being thrown around on this thread is absolutely staggering.

I voted remain but can see that the EU have ballsed their vaccination programme up. They know it which is why we're all in the mess we are now UK and EU. I'm personally glad in this situation we as a country have been able to issue 50% of the adult population with a first shot of a vaccine, we'd be nowhere near that if we had gone down the same route as EU states have. I have family that live in Germany and they're really angry at the german government at the ineptitude which has been shown at getting vaccines to people - certainly hasn't been helped by the success of our programme, but that isn't really the UK governments fault.
 
brain_in_a_jar said:
note to self: never come to a football message board for well researched, educated debate on UK or EU policy.

The generalism being thrown around on this thread is absolutely staggering.

I voted remain but can see that the EU have ballsed their vaccination programme up. They know it which is why we're all in the mess we are now UK and EU. I'm personally glad in this situation we as a country have been able to issue 50% of the adult population with a first shot of a vaccine, we'd be nowhere near that if we had gone down the same route as EU states have. I have family that live in Germany and they're really angry at the german government at the ineptitude which has been shown at getting vaccines to people - certainly hasn't been helped by the success of our programme, but that isn't really the UK governments fault.
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They are angry at the German government? Or angry at the EU? And yes, we could have been in EXACTLY the same position if we were in the EU.

Oh and again, the point is getting into a UK v EU debate is ridiculous and futile. Its a pathetic situation where, to justify Brexit, people feel they have to insult the EU. In this case it's also ridiculous because you are essentially celebrating the third wave of corona in Europe. A Europe that physically (if not politically) we are a part of. And guess what? The virus doesn't care about politics.
 
brain_in_a_jar said:
note to self: never come to a football message board for well researched, educated debate on UK or EU policy.

The generalism being thrown around on this thread is absolutely staggering.

I voted remain but can see that the EU have ballsed their vaccination programme up. They know it which is why we're all in the mess we are now UK and EU. I'm personally glad in this situation we as a country have been able to issue 50% of the adult population with a first shot of a vaccine, we'd be nowhere near that if we had gone down the same route as EU states have. I have family that live in Germany and they're really angry at the german government at the ineptitude which has been shown at getting vaccines to people - certainly hasn't been helped by the success of our programme, but that isn't really the UK governments fault.
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Yet again, there should be no need to state that this has nothing to do with the EU. Every EU country had the right to do the same as the UK. They may have chosen not to do so, but they could have done.
 
Soutra said:
AZ and the government are on public record saying the vaccine is being supplied to the UK government and the EU at the same price, which is quoted as "at cost". I don't know what "at cost" means in this case.

So, I don't think that government is paying way over the top for vaccine versus the EU.

I don't know about Pfizer.

But the point is - isn't it worth paying whatever price the vaccine is to reduce the death rate from >1000 per day to <100 per day?
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That's correct as far as I'm aware. We were only ahead of the game so to speak as we got our orders in early and to a number of different suppliers while the EU dithered. Its the only thing we were ahead of the game for the whole of the pandemic.
 
NYboro said:
SmallTown said:
They are angry at the German government? Or angry at the EU? And yes, we could have been in EXACTLY the same position if we were in the EU.

Oh and again, the point is getting into a UK v EU debate is ridiculous and futile. Its a pathetic situation where, to justify Brexit, people feel they have to insult the EU. In this case it's also ridiculous because you are essentially celebrating the third wave of corona in Europe. A Europe that physically (if not politically) we are a part of. And guess what? The virus doesn't care about politics.
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I'm essentially celebrating the 3rd wave? You're honestly one of the worst posters I've ever come across - nothing I posted celebrates the 3rd wave in the slightest. I have a partner who is expecting our first child in a couple of months and wakes up crying in the middle of the night worried that because of the 3rd wave she won't get to see her sister who lives over seas anytime soon and has no idea when our child will get to see her auntie. I litterally have nothing to gain from a 3rd wave and absolutely nothing in my post even insinuates it. So before throwing these sort of ridiculous statements around with absolutely no evidence, then claim everybody else bullies you - Can I recommend you maybe think before you post.

I'm leaving this thread before I say something to you which will probably get me banned. Absolute idiot
 
NYboro said:
Yet again, there should be no need to state that this has nothing to do with the EU. Every EU country had the right to do the same as the UK. They may have chosen not to do so, but they could have done.
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I'm not sure they were as I think there was a EU agreement that they would act together. Some have since broken ranks and have been criticized by the EU for doing so.
 
NYboro said:
Yet again, there should be no need to state that this has nothing to do with the EU. Every EU country had the right to do the same as the UK. They may have chosen not to do so, but they could have done.
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Wrong. This has everything to do with the EU. The applied pressure on all member countries not to pursue their own vaccine contracts in order that the super powers of Germany and France would not gain an advantage (price and supply) at the expense of the smaller countries in the EU. in theory a good thing. However they then proceeded to drag their heals in negotiating contracts in order to squeeze manufacturers on price. Now, many countries have, out of necessity, gone out to negotiate their own contracts for the Russian and Chinese vaccines.

The elephant in the room with all of this though is the fact that, because of idiots like Macron making ridiculous and unfounded claims about risk an effectiveness the AZ vaccine, that many Europeans are now not prepared to have this vaccine. In fact they are sitting on over a million unused doses, So why should they take more to just stockpile whilst the UK are actually using it to vaccinate people.
 
Konrad_the_Barbarian said:
Wrong. This has everything to do with the EU. The applied pressure on all member countries not to pursue their own vaccine contracts in order that the super powers of Germany and France would not gain an advantage (price and supply) at the expense of the smaller countries in the EU. in theory a good thing. However they then proceeded to drag their heals in negotiating contracts in order to squeeze manufacturers on price. Now, many countries have, out of necessity, gone out to negotiate their own contracts for the Russian and Chinese vaccines.

The elephant in the room with all of this though is the fact that, because of idiots like Macron making ridiculous and unfounded claims about risk an effectiveness the AZ vaccine, that many Europeans are now not prepared to have this vaccine. In fact they are sitting on over a million unused doses, So why should they take more to just stockpile whilst the UK are actually using it to vaccinate people.
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Thank god, saved me a post there. This stuff is all well documented.

It is possible to be critical of the EU without being a spinny eyed, foaming at the mouth brexiteer like some on here try and make people out to be.
 
brain_in_a_jar said:
Thank god, saved me a post there. This stuff is all well documented.

It is possible to be critical of the EU without being a spinny eyed, foaming at the mouth brexiteer like some on here try and make people out to be.
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No-one is questioning the right to criticise the EU. What does annoy people is where the EU is criticised for things that have nothing to do with the EU....
 
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