Payero starts again for boca in el Superclásico

He pushed for a move back to Argentina by his own admission, if he wasn't injured for most of his time here then I expect he may have shown his quality.

Circumstances didn't allow for that though.

Obviously we could have kept a player that spoke very little English and had never settled here as an option from the bench, but I also don't think the club expected to fail comprehensively in bringing in a replacement when they let him go with 6 weeks of the window left.
 
TeaCider said:
but I also don't think the club expected to fail comprehensively in bringing in a replacement when they let him go with 6 weeks of the window left.
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I think this is the annoying thing about it. Every other club around seems to have held on to their players as late in to the window as they possibly could. We could have told Payero he'd be free to go out on loan as soon as his replacement was in. With hindsight we now know the replacement would never have arrived, so he'd probably have got a bit of gametime. From that point who knows what could have been?
 
TeaCider said:
He pushed for a move back to Argentina by his own admission, if he wasn't injured for most of his time here then I expect he may have shown his quality.

Circumstances didn't allow for that though.

Obviously we could have kept a player that spoke very little English and had never settled here as an option from the bench, but I also don't think the club expected to fail comprehensively in bringing in a replacement when they let him go with 6 weeks of the window left.
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He said he had offers from Europe but pushed to go to Boca. Sounds to me like we had told him he wasn't wanted. We'd have let him go anywhere but he wanted to go to Argentina.
 
Nano said:
Sounds to me like we had told him he wasn't wanted.
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And wasn't the only one. Akpom told pretty much the same and now we're desperately waiting for him to return like a knight in shining armour.

Not convinced man management is Wilder's strongest point.
 
We don't really know how good/bad Payero would have been for us, he didn't get or to be fair maybe didn't take his opportunities.
What we did was get rid of our younger midfield players and replace them with ageing snail's.
Midfield is absolutely terrible just now.
 
I think there's a decent player in there. Time will tell.
Remember how bang average DeRoon looked in Boro shirt, just before he left for Atlanta and gained all those international caps?

If Payero does end up in the Argentina WC squad, well then it's clearly a classic case of typical Boro.
 
BiggEggo said:
I think there's a decent player in there. Time will tell.
Remember how bang average DeRoon looked in Boro shirt, just before he left for Atlanta and gained all those international caps?

If Payero does end up in the Argentina WC squad, well then it's clearly a classic case of typical Boro.
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De Roon looked far from 'bang average' when he played from us. Might not have been a superstar, but to call him bang average is a disservice to him and an indictment of your judgement.
 
When you think that we're scratching around in the bin for Dale Stephens as we are desperately short in midfield... and our very own Argentinian international midfielder is OUT ON LOAN playing and shining for Boca Juniors....

If he didn't push for that move and want to go back... it's absolutely wild, and just about sums us up.
 
Assuming he continues to shine for Boca, what is he worth in the market? I have no idea how much the biggest South American teams would pay for someone like him?
 
Nano said:
He said he had offers from Europe but pushed to go to Boca. Sounds to me like we had told him he wasn't wanted. We'd have let him go anywhere but he wanted to go to Argentina.
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Thats the way I see it as well. Probably told you are not going to play, find another club. If he went to Europe it was just like starting afresh in another country. Obvious option for him was go to where he knows. As for pushed he probably realised he was not going to get a game under Wilder so wanted to play football. Had he been in the team I'm sure he would have been happy here.

Also probably same applied to Spence had Warnock played him in his correct position, or even Wilder bringing him back and playing him, he would have been ok. Maybe things had gone too far by Wilder coming as he had started well for Forest but players are generally happy when they are playing football.
 
When we buy young players - they are negatively termed a project, when when buy experienced players they are negatively termed snails - posters can't have it both ways. Getting them at peak age age 25 or 26 is usually expensive for quality look at Saville purchase. Or you buy someone decent with a weakness. Mogga did spot a gem with Leadbitter, but it took him a while to reach his best even when bought at his age peak.

When they leave they were always many times better then when they were here - suddenly all the negatives about them are forgotten (e.g can't speak English, adjusting to different lifestyle, adjusting to different style of play, clumsy tackler, not tactical aware, limited awareness, low match ratings for most appearences. injury prone etc).
 
asredastheycome said:
Thats the way I see it as well. Probably told you are not going to play, find another club. If he went to Europe it was just like starting afresh in another country. Obvious option for him was go to where he knows. As for pushed he probably realised he was not going to get a game under Wilder so wanted to play football. Had he been in the team I'm sure he would have been happy here.

Also probably same applied to Spence had Warnock played him in his correct position, or even Wilder bringing him back and playing him, he would have been ok. Maybe things had gone too far by Wilder coming as he had started well for Forest but players are generally happy when they are playing football.
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We also had Jones doing well in Spence's position - to play both one would have had to play one as a left wing back and both are very right footed. I thought we did very well out of the Spence situation - upto £20m transfer fee (a club record), helped Jones development, loan fees, promotion bonus fee - on a player we got for nothing.
 
dooderooni said:
De Roon looked far from 'bang average' when he played from us. Might not have been a superstar, but to call him bang average is a disservice to him and an indictment of your judgement.
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That was a bit naughty of me wasn't it. I was a big fan of Marten tbf and was hugely disappointed that he left. By the same token he was hugely relieved to get out of the club and the club was pleased to be able sell him back.

However, there were plenty of fans who weren't happy with him.

We also managed to lose money on an improving player. And dont let anyone tell you we didn't, or that we paid 12m for him for that matter. Unfortunately, I think that Payero will represent a huge loss on an improving player.

Fans are not always the best judge of players, and neither are some managers - throw a penny at Chuba for his thoughts.
 
The Payero situation really annoyed me to be honest.

It really looked like it was starting to click for him until he got injured. Then he came back and knacked his ankle away at QPR a couple of month ago.

Stupid decision not to keep him until at least January.

I bet you the club will have known fine well they were going to lose Tav when they also let Payero go too.
 
Payero was not cheap but not a "huge" fee - $5m paid when the dollar was worth about 1.33 to the £ and thats assumes we would not get a fee, but if he gets in the Argentina squad, as some seem to think is possible we may even make a profit on him.

If he was keen to play for Boca and develop there and was deemed a squad/project player @ Boro (played 13 times last season) and Boca were paying his wages, not ridiculous to let him go there for a season. Not perfect as the ideal was for him to improve at Boro, but we have to operate in an imperfect world.
 
The De Roon "problem" wasn't that he wasn't a good player, it was that we played him as an attacking midfielder with defensive duties. It just didn't make sense. He was supposed to be an upgrade on our midfielders but we continued to play them and shoe horned him in. Good player played out of position. Similar to Stuani.
 
You can just see it...3 years time he'll be at Seville, Valencia or Atletico Madrid doing very well and playing CL football.
Fans all over the country saying "What the frig were Boro thinking of letting him go?"


Or maybe not :)
 
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