One Boro ITK claims Neil is off

Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret

Well-known member
I don't think people are dismissing the evidence. They just think differently to you. If you have a strong argument you wouldn't need to say others were like "little girls" because they held a different opinion.
To me it is both plausible that he could fail here, and plausible he could turn it around. I certainly have a general feeling that managers are not allowed to fail anymore and that his record suggests that he is a good manager to have if you want to get out of the league. Past performance is evidence not blind faith.
 

Nosmo-King

Well-known member
I don't think people are dismissing the evidence. They just think differently to you. If you have a strong argument you wouldn't need to say others were like "little girls" because they held a different opinion.
To me it is both plausible that he could fail here, and plausible he could turn it around. I certainly have a general feeling that managers are not allowed to fail anymore and that his record suggests that he is a good manager to have if you want to get out of the league. Past performance is evidence not blind faith.
And our form/ results since January offer some hope of a turnaround? Good God, I can’t believe you honestly can believe this as there isn’t a shred of evidence to back this up!
 

viv_andersons_nana

Well-known member
It’s amazing to read some people saying he’s doing a good job. Boro are 15th in the second tier. 4 points off the bottom three, 13 off the top. Closer to the relegation places than the playoffs having just lost at Hull, newly promoted and having only won once all season before they played us. When we were here under Strachan, Mowbray and Woodgate it was deemed to represent a huge failure of management and coaching on their part. When Boro have been in this kind of position in the past it’s largely been considered a disaster.

The club is geared up towards challenging for promotion. They’ve spent cash and they’ve backed and supported this manager, the ‘promotion specialist’, to the tune of two dozen new signings in just over a year. And yet we sit 15th, in poor form, with no recognisable shape or system, with a catalogue of injuries and gaps all over the show, with an unbalanced squad. We are treading water. Again. Surely the manager has to front up and take responsibility? It’s his work. He’s 18 months into a tenure, not 18 games.

Apart from Woodgate, who was - rightly or wrongly - viewed as a young, up and coming coach for the future, the manager is normally changed at around this point, when the team is performing like it is. I think it’s a bit concerning that he’s being allowed to sign more players, free agents, in the next couple of weeks when what he really ought to be doing is clearing his desk.
 

The_Lizards_Jumpers

Well-known member
I don't think people are dismissing the evidence. They just think differently to you. If you have a strong argument you wouldn't need to say others were like "little girls" because they held a different opinion.

My argument is based on him being on track to deliver us 50 POINTS this season, based on his current form - I don't see what can be stronger to be honest - that surely must be classified as failure in this job, especially given resources.

You're effectively saying past performance, in different circumstances, is a stronger indicator than current performance.
 

Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret

Well-known member
I'm saying I don't know lizards.
I'm not even looking to provide a defence of Warnock.
I have certainly seen in football managers turn around a run of form.
I also have little faith in the club to employ a decent manager in his place. There's evidence of that too when we replaced pulis with woodgate.
 

Caesium137

Well-known member
I'm saying I don't know lizards.
I'm not even looking to provide a defence of Warnock.
I have certainly seen in football managers turn around a run of form.
I also have little faith in the club to employ a decent manager in his place. There's evidence of that too when we replaced pulis with woodgate.
What did you think of the Mowbray sacking at the time Sheriff?

Was it time for him to go?

They have similar calendar years results wise (from January to Mowbray being sacked), one is an old bloke who has no connection to the area who is retiring in six months, the other was a club legend.

I think it was definitely time for Mowbray to go as we looked lost and seemed to be getting worse rather than better. I feel that Warnock has us in the same predicament.
 

JM14

Well-known member
QPR was a cracking game could have gone either way. Another flukey own goal.

Blackpool good first half poor second....yet another flukey own goal.

Derby I'll take the point away from home thanks.

Coventry - Agreed poor
Do you start to realise all the goals we concede cant be a fluke?

We were playing against 10 men against QPR, yes it was a good game but come on that really should be a game we lost

Derby barely even had a team when we played them

Coventry was shocking, but not as bad as Hull
 

The_Lizards_Jumpers

Well-known member
I'm saying I don't know lizards.
I'm not even looking to provide a defence of Warnock.
I have certainly seen in football managers turn around a run of form.
I also have little faith in the club to employ a decent manager in his place. There's evidence of that too when we replaced pulis with woodgate.

Appreciate your reasoned responses, but on your point "I have certainly seen in football managers turn around a run of form".

A run of bad form that has pretty much lasted a year is a long run to turn around, which I'm not sure has been done before.
 

Nobby_Barnes

Well-known member
Do you start to realise all the goals we concede cant be a fluke?

We were playing against 10 men against QPR, yes it was a good game but come on that really should be a game we lost

Derby barely even had a team when we played them

Coventry was shocking, but not as bad as Hull
We will just have to agree to disagree JM you want rid of NW and I don't 👍⚽🥂
 

viv_andersons_nana

Well-known member
The QPR match is one of the most damning of Warnock’s time in charge, IMO. They were down to ten men and completely took hold of the game. Willock ran the midfield, they pulled us everywhere. They were breezing through the heart of our team time and again. They looked like 90s Milan. Warnock stood on the touch line and did absolutely nothing about it. It’s remarkable that he let that happen and didn’t even try to fix it.

That’s when you start to really accept that it’s not working and it’s probably not going to, and you’re going to need to find a better coach. That’s how I felt/viewed it anyway.
 

Redwurzel

Well-known member
94% of Newcastle fans (Supporters Trust) currently want Steve Bruce out. Are Newcastle problems mainly his fault?

I doubt it - fans need someone to blame - its usually the Manager/Head Coach.

Warnock had made some mistakes and is currently struggling particularly with results, but football rarely goes in a straightline there are ups and downs, ask Alex Ferguson. Jose Mourinho.

Poster saying its the same as Mogga in 2013, but its not - Mogga won only 4 games in 2013. Mogga was allowed to expand the squad a bit in the Summer of 2013, saying buying Adomah without having to sell a player. As far as I know Mogga didn't have overseas players bought for him that need to be bedded in. Mogga didn't have a third of his squad injured. Even then I think with hindsight we should have kept Mogga because hes a decent manager

I know its going back a bit but I remember a poor start to 1978/9 season under John Neal - we were close to relegation at this point of the season. It was JN's second season in charge. We were expected to be at least mid table. We never got clear of the relegation are till the beginning of March. We could have sacked him for under performing, but he was given a bit of money to spend on Terry Cochrane, Mickey Burns and Bosco Jankovic (sold Mills) and we went on to decent season in 1979/80 and 1980/81, especially when young players bedded in (particularly Hodgson, Proctor and Johnstone). John Neal left when he forced to sell three of our best players in a 6 week period. He went on to Chelsea and got them promoted and established in the top tier, before suffering from Lung cancer. He was decent manager, who had a bad spell for about 8 months in 1978.
 
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Cuthbert

Well-known member
Also Woodgate was half a season into a managerial career.

I'm personally seeing no signs of improvement under Warnock, and believe we are going backwards, and he's a experienced manager who many fans are happy to make excuse after excuse for, whereas the first signs of trouble under Woodgate they wanted him out.

I honestly don't understand the fascination to have a bloke who is performing so poorly at his job, delivering relegationesque form and will not take any blame for his own shortcomings in charge of this club. I honestly think it's like some teenage girl crush on a popstar from some posters, where they're blind to any evidence and will look to defend him no matter what.
I think we had (and still do a bit) the same with AK. I guess we're just all different!
 

Nobby_Barnes

Well-known member
94% of Newcastle fans (Supporters Trust) currently want Steve Bruce out. Are Newcastle problems mainly his fault?

I doubt it - fans need someone to blame - its usually the Manager/Head Coach.

Warnock had made some mistakes and is currently struggling particularly with results, but football rarely goes in a straightline there are ups and downs, ask Alex Ferguson. Jose Mourinho.

Poster saying its the same as Mogga in 2013, but its not - Mogga won only 4 games in 2013. Mogga was allowed to expand the squad a bit in the Summer of 2013, saying buying Adomah without having to sell a player. As far as I know Mogga didn't have overseas players bought for him that need to be bedded in. Mogga didn't have a third of his squad injured. Even then I think with hindsight we should have kept Mogga because hes a decent manager

I know its going back a bit but I remember a poor start to 1978/9 season under John Neal - we were close to relegation at this point of the season. It was JN's second season in charge. We were expected to be at least mid table. We never got clear of the relegation are till the beginning of March. We could have sacked him for under performing, but he was given a bit of money to spend on Terry Cochrane, Mickey Burns and Bosco Jankovic (sold Mills) and we went on to decent season in 1979/80 and 1980/81, especially when young players bedded in (particularly Hodgson, Proctor and Johnstone). John Neal left when he forced to sell three of our best players in a 6 week period. He went on to Chelsea and got them promoted and established in the top tier, before suffering from Lung cancer. He was decent manager, who had a bad spell for about 8 months in 1978.
That's a good post 👍 Newcastle supporters want Bruce out but with Wilson out injured and Joe Linton upfront he, like Warnock doesn't have many options...A new manager just inherits the problems...
 

uncle_rico

Well-known member
That's a good post 👍 Newcastle supporters want Bruce out but with Wilson out injured and Joe Linton upfront he, like Warnock doesn't have many options...A new manager just inherits the problems...
You’re making out that players getting injured is something new.

The fact that we have so many players injured suggests that there is something wrong with the training and sport science. Second to that, the fact that our squad isn’t able to cope with a few injuries again tells you that something is wrong. All of that stems from those in charge, so Warnock is ultimately culpable.

Under Karanka if we had a few injuries we always had someone ready to step in. We had at least two players for every position, with youth players as the back up after that. It was very rarely square pegs in round holes, which is pretty much all we have seen in the last 5 years.
 

Alzi

Well-known member
Including Agnew, 8 out of our last 9 managers have ultimately been failures. Even our 1 success, Karanka, ended very badly with a lot of acrimony along the way.

Is that solely on the 8 managers, or is something else not quite right at the club?
 
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