Beverleyred
Well-known member
Whatever your view, it’s a sting in the tail for the WASPI ladies.
Ombudsman finds that WASPI women are owed compensation...
- Thread starter sherlock
- Start date
WilliamMunny
Well-known member
In which case we are in agreement
sherlock
Well-known member
We have the worst state pension in Europe.
Andy_W
Well-known member
I don't think anyone is denying the historical inequalities, but it works both ways to a degree.
Sure, the women may (will) have had more limited work opportunities (and earnings), but we're talking people born in 1950, not 1850. Theoretically the equal rights for women should have opened up more doors to work later in life, so sort of trying to get them to retire earlier, and earlier than men seems a bit counter productive.
Also, it's fair to assume most would be coupled up, and probably both trying to work to 65 anyway (assuming same age couple, on average), unless they're loaded (which many are, richest generation etc), and the wealth of the couple and property is likely an even split.
Sure there will have been a lot of women not working etc, or earning less, but what about the 55 year old blokes who worked hard labour all their lives supporting the two of them, and however many kids, not on good money, expected to work to 65 etc, when the latter 10 years is effectively impossible. The 60 year old women probably have a better chance of getting a job than the 60 year old guys do? Not sure the prospects are great for either mind, and never likely will be, so it's going to be fun for those 50,40,30,20 now etc, when that time comes, and it's going to get worse for each younger generation.
Sure, they probably do deserve some compensation, 100% agree with that, but it needs to be means tested, and compared to where that money is being taken from (which is probably the younger folk who are already most screwed).
NYboro
Well-known member
Not just Europe; I'm in receipt of a US Social Security pension for the 21 years I was there......
sherlock
Well-known member
It really doesn't.
The state pension is not means tested, so the recompense for maladministration in the state pension should not be means tested either.
Andy_W
Well-known member
I thought we were about half way up the list? Also, we also have one of the highest work based pensions, if not the highest. It was a big plus for a lot of jobs, even before it became mandatory.
Plus the average pension age in the EU is 65.
Also we are low on the list because our country is ran by tossers, and pensioners vote for the party with the most tossers who actively try their best to take money from the poor to give to the rich. They certainly don't do anything to make that work the other way around.
This may actually be one case, as a whole where they're actually taking money from the richest age group, so they could spend on unemployment benefit, housing benefit, income support, social services etc, not that they actual will mind (as they're tossers). Labour will probably shift this though, thankfully, but it's goign to take time as we're skint.
We don't bring in enough tax, people are living longer, people are costing a lot more to keep alive longer whilst we keep paying them to be alive etc, we don't have enough for anything, and pensions are ~40% of the welfare budget.
We've just cut the simple, freely available supply of young workers to help fund this tax/ pension pot, at a time when the birth rate is through the floor and has been for a decade. If there's not enough young folk to do the working, then the older folk will need to work longer.
The UK is becoming far too top heavy age wise, it just won't work.
There's a massive misunderstanding that people have been paying tax to fund their pension, when they haven't, the people who fund their pension are the folk working whilst they're in retirement.
sherlock
Well-known member
Pensions aren't welfare benefits.
Andy_W
Well-known member
Why shouldn't it be means tested? It's supposed compensation, why compensate the rich and the poor equally, assuming it would be untaxed? Baring in mind the rich likely also have private pensions too. Why not give the woman with nothing (as part of a couple) 2x , the woman with little(as part of a couple) 1x and the woman with 500k (as part of a couple), 0x?
I'm not against means testing the state pension either, and fully expect I would be opening the door to lose out myself in the future, and would happily vote for that. I just don't see any reason why this would not be fair. I just don't see why a couple with 500k in assets needs another £1500 a month, more than some young folk who can't ever get on the property ladder, or maybe can at 40, and be paying it off until they're 70. The money is going in the wrong direction.
A couple with 500k (the average for that age group) can draw down about 60k per year, assuming ~8% growth on their assets, for 13 years (say Age 68-81), effectively taking 50% more than the minimum wage for a full working week. Why do they need extra? Sure some will live longer, and more than happy for the state to fund them then, to an equal level as minimum wage.
Andy_W
Well-known member
WilliamMunny
Well-known member
Technically Andy W didn't say they were, he said they made up around 40% of the welfare budget. If you disagree with that, best take it up with the OBR.
Welfare spending: pensioner benefits - Office for Budget Responsibility
Welfare spending is the biggest source of AME spending, with pensioner spending the biggest item in the social security budget (accounting for 46 per cent of the total in 2020-21, down from 49 per cent in 2019-20).
obr.uk
hobblewobble
Active member
There is another elephant in the room which has been forgotten when they changed the pension from 30 years contribution to 35 years i camnnot be the only one who is not getting the full pension!
Only because of the way they are defined. We have a comparable pension when you include all pension types. Germany and France for example have the equivalent of our private/occupational pension system included with their state pension so you would have to include them to be comparable.
If you use “replacement rates”, which consider pension earnings as a share of pre-retirement earnings then the UK has an average net replacement rate of 54.4%, compared to 55.3% in Germany so very similar but France is higher at 71.9%.
This still tells you very little because it doesn't tell you what contributions were, what average cost of living is e.g. I believe home ownership rate is much higher in the UK than Germany so rent isn't a factor for the majority of pensioners in the UK compared to Germany and the NHS is completely free in the UK but do they still have to contribute to insurance in those other countries?
They did but they also made it easier to qualify when you are not in work so people on maternity leave, receiving child benefit, being a carer etc which means the chances of not getting the full pension are lower.
FishofContemplation
Well-known member
We may compare unfavourably to fully comparable western European countries, but that statement is laughably false. We’re not even below the median. We pay 10 times more than the genuine worst, which is Armenia.
sherlock
Well-known member
Emily Thornberry having a nightmare on the TV rounds this morning.
Saying the government need to give ‘fair and fast justice’ to WASPI women whilst at the same time refusing to commit Labour to doing the same.
This despite Labour previously committing to restitution in full.
Saying the government need to give ‘fair and fast justice’ to WASPI women whilst at the same time refusing to commit Labour to doing the same.
This despite Labour previously committing to restitution in full.
That was done on the back of a fag packet though and summed up the 2019 campaign.
Johnson said live on air when questioned he couldn’t commit to it so next day labour announced they would.
Thornberry is having a mare though, more so she just doesn’t want to say they won’t commit whilst making it perfectly obvious they won’t.
It’s gonna be pretty hard to lose this election so she might aswell just say it, labour will still win a landslide
1finny
Well-known member
Oh, I'm loving that - bringing unfairness to males into a discussion.
Women have put up with shocking treatment for 000's of years - no rights, no votes, et al
Bloke on message board gets a bit angsty cos men had to work a bit longer than women to get a pension
sherlock
Well-known member
Very bad look for her though as she’s been pictured with the WASPI women many times.