Mick Lynch.

Uwefuchs

Well-known member
What exactly are the strikers' demands. Without knowing I can't form an opinion (and feel a bit left out).

There has been no demand from the RMT about pay, it hasn't even got to that stage yet.

Network Rail gave no pay rise in 2021 and removed the annual bonus scheme which is worth up to £1500 per year. As it was during the height of covid the union didn't force the issue of a payrise and allowed talks to enter in 2022.

NR and the RMT were talking in the early part of this year and couldn't agree a deal so members were balloted for strike action. NR have compromised a little bit but the best they are offering is:

2021 - £0
2022 - 4%
2023 - 4%

However this contingent on absolutely ripping up the terms and conditions of the maintenance staff.
For example imposing 37 weeks of nights a year, (however a week of night shifts is classed as 4 or more nights in a week, so the rest of the year staff can still be made to work up to 3 night shifts). Weekend allowances dropped, for example 150% on a Sunday is pretty standard on the railway, they want to change that to 110%.

Many maintenance staff are basically being told that they'll have to work permanent nights and get 10% extra for weekends. This a safety critical job where staff have to drive to work sites and then be out on the track doing maintenance so doing that while severely fatigued is a huge risk, let alone the impact on peoples work life balance. These are just two changes of many to the staffs T's and C's, when you factor the money which will be lost from weekend allowances the 4% will barely allow staff to break even.

Also, Network Rail want to reduce track inspections by half to save on staff costs but this will eventually lead to track defects being missed and you know what will happen eventually. A number of other issues have been raised by the RMT concerning safety standards which are being compromised. I could write a couple of thousand words about the changes to the T's and C's but I haven't got time.

I've heard from people that have been in negotiations and saw notes from the meetings and Network rail veer from trying to do a deal (and then being told by the government that they can't offer it), to being outright belligerent and disruptive.

I've no doubt that this is the RMT members vs the government, the bosses at NR are just carrying out the governments dirty work.

I understand the disruption this is causing to the public but this is absolutely hammering the pay of the rmt workers. No one is winning here at the moment.

Network rail have said they need to save 100m pounds so they can offer a payrise. Yet every strike day is apparently costing 30m+ to the tax payer. We've had 8 strike days already with another 8 to come. It won't be far off costing the tax payer a billion pounds soon, it would have cost far less than this to come to a deal but unfortunately the government seem to have a blank cheque book when it comes to beating the union.

* Its not only Network rail staff involved in this dispute. Also lots of staff from train operating companies are also part of the dispute. Im not as knowledgeable about the cuts happening to those companies but I know staff are opposing the removal of station staff and guards for trains amongst other things. If you are disabled, good luck getting on a train if these changes are imposed.
 
What a crooked mess this country is turning into.

A good man trying to do right by his colleagues is vilified on air by millionaires like Susannah Reid and Richard Madeley

At the same time a chancer and a liar eats some bugs for a £400K payday and asks for "forgiveness" for overseeing some of the most shameful political decisions in recent memory which caused needless death and misery, and people lap it up!

How long until Corbyn is blamed for all this?
 

Anton_Berg

Well-known member
There has been no demand from the RMT about pay, it hasn't even got to that stage yet.

Network Rail gave no pay rise in 2021 and removed the annual bonus scheme which is worth up to £1500 per year. As it was during the height of covid the union didn't force the issue of a payrise and allowed talks to enter in 2022.

NR and the RMT were talking in the early part of this year and couldn't agree a deal so members were balloted for strike action. NR have compromised a little bit but the best they are offering is:

2021 - £0
2022 - 4%
2023 - 4%

However this contingent on absolutely ripping up the terms and conditions of the maintenance staff.
For example imposing 37 weeks of nights a year, (however a week of night shifts is classed as 4 or more nights in a week, so the rest of the year staff can still be made to work up to 3 night shifts). Weekend allowances dropped, for example 150% on a Sunday is pretty standard on the railway, they want to change that to 110%.

Many maintenance staff are basically being told that they'll have to work permanent nights and get 10% extra for weekends. This a safety critical job where staff have to drive to work sites and then be out on the track doing maintenance so doing that while severely fatigued is a huge risk, let alone the impact on peoples work life balance. These are just two changes of many to the staffs T's and C's, when you factor the money which will be lost from weekend allowances the 4% will barely allow staff to break even.

Also, Network Rail want to reduce track inspections by half to save on staff costs but this will eventually lead to track defects being missed and you know what will happen eventually. A number of other issues have been raised by the RMT concerning safety standards which are being compromised. I could write a couple of thousand words about the changes to the T's and C's but I haven't got time.

I've heard from people that have been in negotiations and saw notes from the meetings and Network rail veer from trying to do a deal (and then being told by the government that they can't offer it), to being outright belligerent and disruptive.

I've no doubt that this is the RMT members vs the government, the bosses at NR are just carrying out the governments dirty work.

I understand the disruption this is causing to the public but this is absolutely hammering the pay of the rmt workers. No one is winning here at the moment.

Network rail have said they need to save 100m pounds so they can offer a payrise. Yet every strike day is apparently costing 30m+ to the tax payer. We've had 8 strike days already with another 8 to come. It won't be far off costing the tax payer a billion pounds soon, it would have cost far less than this to come to a deal but unfortunately the government seem to have a blank cheque book when it comes to beating the union.

* Its not only Network rail staff involved in this dispute. Also lots of staff from train operating companies are also part of the dispute. Im not as knowledgeable about the cuts happening to those companies but I know staff are opposing the removal of station staff and guards for trains amongst other things. If you are disabled, good luck getting on a train if these changes are imposed.

Thanks for that, but it seems too esoteric to take a view. Are we saying the pay settlement comes down to a single percentage for the whole industry, regardless of job title?
 

Uwefuchs

Well-known member
Thanks for that, but it seems too esoteric to take a view. Are we saying the pay settlement comes down to a single percentage for the whole industry, regardless of job title?

Let's say the government agree to all of the 'demands' that would mean no changes to the terms and conditions and then both sides would agree a %. What has usually happened in the past the payrise has been based on rpi so the staff get an increase based on inflation. I've seen payrises of 1% and payrises of 5/6% and anything in between (can't remember exactly).

With having no payrise for 2021 the workforce are financially worse off already (based on inflation) so I would imagine the RMT are asking for something close to the current level of inflation. Obviously that's a starting point and maybe both sides might meet somewhere in between but that's just my guess.

I'm guessing what you are asking is; does someone on 50k a year need a payrise more than someone on 20k a year? If that is a position that NR/the government wanted to propose then that hasn't been discussed as far as I know. Payrises are usually based on the same figure for everyone, rightly or wrongly.
 

newyddion

Well-known member
lots of folks calling for a new socialist party.. why not just make labour loads better? or even the lib dems!
 

Emmersons_BrazillianDong

Well-known member
There has been no demand from the RMT about pay, it hasn't even got to that stage yet.

Network Rail gave no pay rise in 2021 and removed the annual bonus scheme which is worth up to £1500 per year. As it was during the height of covid the union didn't force the issue of a payrise and allowed talks to enter in 2022.

NR and the RMT were talking in the early part of this year and couldn't agree a deal so members were balloted for strike action. NR have compromised a little bit but the best they are offering is:

2021 - £0
2022 - 4%
2023 - 4%

However this contingent on absolutely ripping up the terms and conditions of the maintenance staff.
For example imposing 37 weeks of nights a year, (however a week of night shifts is classed as 4 or more nights in a week, so the rest of the year staff can still be made to work up to 3 night shifts). Weekend allowances dropped, for example 150% on a Sunday is pretty standard on the railway, they want to change that to 110%.

Many maintenance staff are basically being told that they'll have to work permanent nights and get 10% extra for weekends. This a safety critical job where staff have to drive to work sites and then be out on the track doing maintenance so doing that while severely fatigued is a huge risk, let alone the impact on peoples work life balance. These are just two changes of many to the staffs T's and C's, when you factor the money which will be lost from weekend allowances the 4% will barely allow staff to break even.

Also, Network Rail want to reduce track inspections by half to save on staff costs but this will eventually lead to track defects being missed and you know what will happen eventually. A number of other issues have been raised by the RMT concerning safety standards which are being compromised. I could write a couple of thousand words about the changes to the T's and C's but I haven't got time.

I've heard from people that have been in negotiations and saw notes from the meetings and Network rail veer from trying to do a deal (and then being told by the government that they can't offer it), to being outright belligerent and disruptive.

I've no doubt that this is the RMT members vs the government, the bosses at NR are just carrying out the governments dirty work.

I understand the disruption this is causing to the public but this is absolutely hammering the pay of the rmt workers. No one is winning here at the moment.

Network rail have said they need to save 100m pounds so they can offer a payrise. Yet every strike day is apparently costing 30m+ to the tax payer. We've had 8 strike days already with another 8 to come. It won't be far off costing the tax payer a billion pounds soon, it would have cost far less than this to come to a deal but unfortunately the government seem to have a blank cheque book when it comes to beating the union.

* Its not only Network rail staff involved in this dispute. Also lots of staff from train operating companies are also part of the dispute. Im not as knowledgeable about the cuts happening to those companies but I know staff are opposing the removal of station staff and guards for trains amongst other things. If you are disabled, good luck getting on a train if these changes are imposed.
Really comprehensive overview, cheers Uwe.

Random but are you the same person who used to play for MSS years ago? JH?
 

Redwurzel

Well-known member
Ticket prices have shot up in the last 5 years - I would say by around 50% for me - Lets say 8% a year.

The number of staff has reduced in the ticket office (through automation/new tech), not sure about the rest of the network, but there doesn't seem to be many guards now.

Makes you wonder where the money is going.

4% for 2 years with cuts in other payments seems particularly mean, especially when employers say they struggle to recruit.

The strike certainly has a political feel to it.
 

Ex Footy Legs

Well-known member
What a crooked mess this country is turning into.

A good man trying to do right by his colleagues is vilified on air by millionaires like Susannah Reid and Richard Madeley

At the same time a chancer and a liar eats some bugs for a £400K payday and asks for "forgiveness" for overseeing some of the most shameful political decisions in recent memory which caused needless death and misery, and people lap it up!

How long until Corbyn is blamed for all this?
Mick lynch. Super impressive and I for one, could listen to him all day. Eloquent and articulate as well as pragmatic and explains the problem with these massive profits of the big companies and the people who earn their profits are being pi$$ed on from a great height.
 

Uwefuchs

Well-known member
Makes you wonder where the money is going.


The money is usually paid out to shareholders rather than reinvested into the railway.

Even worse than that we've got some train operated companies who have been sold to overseas companies. For example DB Shenker who run a lot of freight traffic are owned by the German government, so any profit made is reinvested back into Germany and the German railway. The French, Spanish and Dutch also do the same. Its madness 😂
 

Uwefuchs

Well-known member

The money is usually paid out to shareholders rather than reinvested into the railway.

Even worse than that we've got some train operated companies who have been sold to overseas companies. For example DB Shenker who run a lot of freight traffic are owned by the German government, so any profit made is reinvested back into Germany and the German railway. The French, Spanish and Dutch also do the same. Its madness 😂

This is a few years old but still pretty accurate.

 

BoroMart

Well-known member
What a crooked mess this country is turning into.

A good man trying to do right by his colleagues is vilified on air by millionaires like Susannah Reid and Richard Madeley

At the same time a chancer and a liar eats some bugs for a £400K payday and asks for "forgiveness" for overseeing some of the most shameful political decisions in recent memory which caused needless death and misery, and people lap it up!

How long until Corbyn is blamed for all this?
Yup that sums up this ***show of a country
 
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