Leeds keeper banned for racist comment
- Thread starter Lemmy_kilmister
- Start date
TheBoroBuzzard
Well-known member
Good that something is being done by the authorities, but he is absolute turd, so I’m guessing that Dirty Leeds won’t miss him
DCI_Gene_Hunt
Well-known member
I don't understand how anyone can be found guilty (of anything, not just this) on the balance of probability - what ever happened to proof? Innocent until proven guilty?
This is not a criminal case being tried in a court of law, it's more like a civil case. FA disciplinary cases have always used the 'balance of probability' criteria. This is a similar standard to that found in a civil case where a decision is reached based on the "preponderance of the evidence," meaning it is more likely than not that what is being alleged is what actually happened.
Just as a civil case doesn't have to establish the defendant’s guilt using the same standard as in a criminal trial, neither does an FA disciplinary hearing.
DCI_Gene_Hunt
Well-known member
Yeah I get all that but at the end of the day it's one person's word against another.
Casilla's reputation and potentially livelihood are threatened on a panel deciding there was a probability - based on what grounds?
Casilla's reputation and potentially livelihood are threatened on a panel deciding there was a probability - based on what grounds?
1finny
Well-known member
Afraid you don’t know its ‘one person’s word against another’.
The disciplinary panel have said they are not releasing the ‘grounds’.
Maybe a little unsatisfactory but, I guess, they are just human beings taking a view on the evidence they have and concluded something like ‘yeah, on balance, it was racist’
The disciplinary panel have said they are not releasing the ‘grounds’.
Maybe a little unsatisfactory but, I guess, they are just human beings taking a view on the evidence they have and concluded something like ‘yeah, on balance, it was racist’
TeaCider
Well-known member
I think it's mad that Bamford only got a 2 match ban for deliberately and blatantly deceiving the referee to get an opposition player sent off, i.e. cheating, but this guy is getting an 8 match for using offensive language.
I get that it's because they're taking a stand against racism, and it's a societal issue that they need to be seen to take seriously, especially with football's previous failings in relation to it, but you can break a player's leg and receive less punishment.
I get that it's because they're taking a stand against racism, and it's a societal issue that they need to be seen to take seriously, especially with football's previous failings in relation to it, but you can break a player's leg and receive less punishment.
atypical_boro
Well-known member
The two incidents don’t even compare.
TeaCider
Well-known member
I'm not saying he isn't a racist, nor am I condoning it. He's rightly being punished.
But you can do far worse on the pitch than insult someone and receive a smaller punishment. I'm taking issue with the comparitively lax punishments for cheating.
1finny
Well-known member
I can actually feel the anger rising in my body as I read this. I will leave the conversation to others
TeaCider
Well-known member
I've worded that badly, I was editing my post as you responded but there's no point now.
I wasn't trying to say cheating is worse than racial abuse, it's not, nor am I taking issue with the 8 match ban. It's justified and the FA have sadly let situations like this slide previously.
I was trying to call for them to provide harsher punishments for cheating and violent conduct, though I can see why bringing it up in a thread about a player being banned for racism might make it seem like I'm trying to minimise his conduct.
Ill thought out and poorly written posts on my behalf, I apologise.
DCI_Gene_Hunt
Well-known member
According to the BBC report linked the panel will publish their report next week which hopefully clarifies things. Would have made far more sense to publish it along side announcing the outcome & knock any speculation on the head.
Big_Nothing
Well-known member
Fair enough, Ben. Most people after badly wording posts like that would've just double downed, argued the toss, defended themselves and tried to turn it round on everyone else. You've acknowledged it hasn't come across well and said sorry, respect for that.
Cheating is bad and needs stronger punishments but it's something that exists within the context of the game, racism transcends it and is a far more disgusting piece of behaviour. Showing contempt for another person due to their race is well above trying to gain an advantage through play acting.
I think we're at a dangerous societal impasse at the moment in regards to racism. There's a growing number of people who seem to be denying some things are racist at all, others who think racism has some kind of acceptable context (I'd argue some jokes where racism itself is the clear butt of the joke may be) and people who just don't think it's a big deal or that it doesn't really exist in 2020 or seem determined to find examples of white people suffering from racism as though it somehow makes a difference to the overall issue.
It's worrying and I think we have to be harsh and on top of it. The problem with instances on a football pitch is its always going to be he said/she said, one word against another. That gives people a free pass and makes proving it beyond reasonable doubt almost impossible. Therefore there's going to be a lower standard so that it can be tackled. Some will immediately jump on the "players can make it up then" argument but frankly I think that will be in a serious minority of cases and if there's literally no other evidence but one players accusation, no bust up at the supposed point of language used then it'd get tossed out.
Cheating is bad and needs stronger punishments but it's something that exists within the context of the game, racism transcends it and is a far more disgusting piece of behaviour. Showing contempt for another person due to their race is well above trying to gain an advantage through play acting.
I think we're at a dangerous societal impasse at the moment in regards to racism. There's a growing number of people who seem to be denying some things are racist at all, others who think racism has some kind of acceptable context (I'd argue some jokes where racism itself is the clear butt of the joke may be) and people who just don't think it's a big deal or that it doesn't really exist in 2020 or seem determined to find examples of white people suffering from racism as though it somehow makes a difference to the overall issue.
It's worrying and I think we have to be harsh and on top of it. The problem with instances on a football pitch is its always going to be he said/she said, one word against another. That gives people a free pass and makes proving it beyond reasonable doubt almost impossible. Therefore there's going to be a lower standard so that it can be tackled. Some will immediately jump on the "players can make it up then" argument but frankly I think that will be in a serious minority of cases and if there's literally no other evidence but one players accusation, no bust up at the supposed point of language used then it'd get tossed out.
American_Mary
Well-known member
I think 8 games for racism is an incredibly light punishment. You would hope Leeds would also impose their own sanctions and also have Casillas take part in a program of education and rehabilitation, perhaps within the black and Asian communities in and around Leeds.
Whenever they make a decision like this, the FA publishes a fully detailed account of all the evidence and the reasoning behind the decision. It usually takes a few days after the decision is announced, to put together the full document. According to the FA's website:
As just mentioned, they've said the full written reasons will be published next week.
They announce the actual decision first, so that any disciplinary sanctions can take effect straight away but you can't release a full transcript of what has just occurred, immediately after the hearing is over, it takes a few days to transcribe what was said and put it into a publishable format.
DCI_Gene_Hunt
Well-known member
It would be very easy to put out a statement with the logic behind the decision at the same time as the decision is announced without having to issue the full transcript which could come later though?
ticker_tape
Well-known member
His punishment is he will always be regarded as a racist.
So when talks to team members it should be in their thoughts.
So when talks to team members it should be in their thoughts.