Labours changing policy on the EU

Trug said:
But I've no idea what SAB's point is. What is "left wing by backside?"
No idea, Unless it is a reference to Thatchers " socialism by the back door" whinge
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I am suggesting that the EU had nothing to do with socialism and run as a capitalist plaything.

I shivered when I read Thatcher.
 
The elephant in the room that Starmer was disloyal to Corbyn is that Corbyn voted 428 times against his own Labour government. That's the way to help the poor and NHS.
 
Same_as_before said:
Hmmm, no reasoned argument just insults. I vote Labour without thinking I don't need a manifesto to tell me it's better than the alternative.

It's the left on here crying I am not Voting Labour because of that nasty Starmer.

It was the left who questioned the outcome of the referendum, a vote for Brexit significantly in Major Labour heartlands. Then suggested there should be a rerun. The electorate in those Labour heartlands did indeed get off the leash and stuffed us.
Keep your theoretical principled socialism I am pragmatic Labour.
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Ok so you're pragmatic Labour.
And you decry those on the left who won't vote for nasty Starmer
And you blame the left for suggesting a rerun
And you blame the suggestion of a rerun for the stuffing we received
What will you say when you learn that the People's Vote was Starmer's baby and he forced the party into that stance?

On another note, I still don't understand the point of your link.
 
In the 1975 Referendum - the left wing of the Labour Party were the ones pushing for the UK to leave the EEC.
 
Same_as_before said:
I think the first line does it. Against socialist principles.
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This line doesn't appear anywhere in the document. It does argue that in the 1950's Labour regarded closer integration with Europe would be against the socialist agenda and that any such system would have a permanent anti-socialist majority. It seems that that's as far as you read because the paper goes on to explain that over the next couple of decades many in the Labour Party began to realise that the socialist agenda could be better promoted within the Common Market when they witnessed the appetite among the original six members for addressing living and working conditions. The Unions too were getting on board with a spokesperson from the GMWU observing that “Joining the EEC will commit Britain to implementing the principle of equal pay." Not something that any socialist would argue against.

He added that it could:

"give added impetus towards longer holidays and shorter hours
lead to an improvement of training methods and facilities.
lead to an improvement in family allowances"

Again nothing to upset the socialist agenda.

At this time, the inhabitants of UK towns and cities which were down on their luck, where the traditional industries were lost or in decline and where there was a widening gap in living conditions, education, infrastructure and healthcare were being advised to uproot and move to wealthier areas, thus abandoning the poorer areas to permanent decay.

In contrast:-

"Another new policy introduced in 1965, in line with existing Labour policies,
was the formation of a committee designed to distribute the money of the European
Development Fund to projects originating in the less-developed EEC Associated
Countries. Funds were provided for infrastructure, as well as public institutions,
such as schools and hospitals."

A socialist policy. So you see, the CM in those days wasn't the capitalist cabal that you imagine it was, but a place where a socialist agenda could be more easily advanced.

We joined the Common Market in 1973 and in 75 the Labour government called a referendum on whether to remain or leave. Remain won with a majority of over 67%. Oh and Labour were the only party to not take a position on either side of the argument, campaigning neither for nor against.
 
You accept that referendum but don't accept the latest, why is that.

In my opinion it is still a capitalist toy run for the benefit of the strongest economies, ask Greece. The Euro has kept Germany competitive, which was and is it's modus operandi.

I fully agree that the EU has put in place good policies as have Labour governments before the EU. Is minimum wage an EU wide policy. I don't know.

The minimum hours is a great idea. But on my holidays in Spain the same staff serve Breakfast Lunch and Dinner, also work serving drinks. Do you think it is complied with?

I also think free movement of Labour is a great idea, it's a shame the negative effect it had on the Indian subcontinent and other non EU labour.

How many times Corbyn voting with Johnson do you think is acceptable?
 
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Same_as_before said:
You accept that referendum but don't accept the latest, why is that.
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Stop telling me what I accept, believe or vote for. You have a bad habit of doing this and yet you know nothing about me.

Same_as_before said:
In my opinion it is still a capitalist toy run for the benefit of the strongest economies,
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And yet when a very small group of extremely rich people set about convincing the people of the UK of the need to leave the EU for no other purpose than to enrich themselves even more, you fell for it and like a sheep went along and voted with them. You were duped by capitalists.
Same_as_before said:
I fully agree that the EU has put in place good policies as have Labour governments before the EU.
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Read your own link. At the time the Labour party began to realise that they could further their cause better within the Common Market.
Same_as_before said:
The minimum hours is a great idea. But on my holidays in Spain the same staff serve Breakfast Lunch and Dinner, also work serving drinks. Do you think it is complied with?
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Using the people doing seasonal work in the hospitality industry as an example doesn't strengthen your argument, they probably take whatever hours they can get as some of them will undoubtedly be out of work for periods of time outside the holiday season. . Did you talk to car workers in France, steel workers in Belgium or shop workers in Germany?
 
I see you disagree with every point I make except 1.

I worked in the motor industry in Spain for 12 years, there is no such thing as minimum hours.

Nice to see you don't care about seasonal workers.

Is there a minimum wage in the EU?
 
Same_as_before said:
I see you disagree with every point I make except 1.

I worked in the motor industry in Spain for 12 years, there is no such thing as minimum hours.

Nice to see you don't care about seasonal workers.

Is there a minimum wage in the EU?
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1. I addressed point one. i told you to stop telling me what I accept, believe or vote for, because you have no idea.

2. I don't know what happens in Spain but that's up to them to police. At no point have I stated that working hours are good all over the EU, I said that between the 50's and 70's Labour realised that it could further it's socialist agenda better within the Common Market.

3. See point 1. You are making a lot of assumptions that you have no right to make or are in any position to make. Stop it.
 
I thought that by using the term seasonal workers you thought they were outside of the rules. I never brought it up.

What's your opinion on Corbyn joining Johnson, Gideon, Cameron 428 times in the same voting chamber.

Do you think Dennis Skinner was proud of him.
 
Same_as_before said:
I thought that by using the term seasonal workers you thought they were outside of the rules. I never brought it up.

What's your opinion on Corbyn joining Johnson, Gideon, Cameron 428 times in the same voting chamber.

Do you think Dennis Skinner was proud of him.
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You've totally lost sight of your own thread and no longer know what it is you're attempting to prove. I'm out.
 
BlindBoyGrunt said:
You've totally lost sight of your own thread and no longer know what it is you're attempting to prove. I'm out.
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It's because you have no answer to Corbyn and his disloyalty.

The original point was that Labour thought the EU was a capitalist cabal. Because of a currency that favours Germany, a few employment (that are ignored) and environmental laws now it's a panacea. To me it's still run by capitalists for the benefit of rich countries, i.e. a capitalist cabal.
 
Same_as_before said:
I thought that by using the term seasonal workers you thought they were outside of the rules. I never brought it up.

What's your opinion on Corbyn joining Johnson, Gideon, Cameron 428 times in the same voting chamber.

Do you think Dennis Skinner was proud of him.
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The fact you're using Dennis Skinner as an argument AGAINST MPs rebelling. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂🤣
 
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