No they used the exaggerations and lies of what happened on October 7th to justify ethnic cleansing
Labour withdraws its support for Rochdale by-election candidate Aszhar Ali
- Thread starter LessoftheLip
- Start date
What did they exaggerate and lie about?
Babies with heads being chopped off, pregnant women having her stomach cut open, rampant raping, Hamas murdering 1200 civilians.
The stupid thing is the truth was bad enough, but they exaggerated it to justify the response they wanted.
Israel social security data reveals true picture of Oct 7 deaths
A more precise picture of Hamas's October 7 attack on Israel has emerged from social security data, confirming the unprecedented scale of the violence but also challenging some initial testimonies.
www.france24.com
Babies with heads being chopped off, pregnant women having her stomach cut open, rampant raping, Hamas murdering 1200 civilians.
The stupid thing is the truth was bad enough, but they exaggerated it to justify the response they wanted.
Israel social security data reveals true picture of Oct 7 deaths
A more precise picture of Hamas's October 7 attack on Israel has emerged from social security data, confirming the unprecedented scale of the violence but also challenging some initial testimonies.
So are you saying 1200 civilians weren’t murdered?
Regarding the you tube clip, the below paragraph gives me al I need to know on its impartially
“Jamal Bassasso, a Kuwait-born Palestinian living in London, was the sole director of Middle East Eye's parent company MEE Ltd. Bassasso was a former director for the registered agent of Hamas-controlled Al-Quds TV.[9”
Read the 2nd link, more details based on official israeli updates
FishofContemplation
Well-known member
The more recent suspension looks more dodgy, because it appears this one is only accused of suggesting that those who volunteer to fight for Israel in the present conflict are committing a crime (although he used a very naughty word to describe them, which a media that is quite happy to show dead bodies lying around seems to think we can’t cope with).
That isn’t a conspiracy theory. The ICJ has at least determined there is enough of a case to answer to ask for evidence (which i suspect will not be forthcoming) and even allies are now raising concerns. In circumstances where there is at least an open question as far as a body as important as the ICJ is concerned, debate should not be shut down.
Labour is siding with those who might in the opinion of the ICJ be committing genocide, against those who wish to make sure they are not. I have no time for the petty anti-Semitism of the Corbyn era, but this cannot be defended
That isn’t a conspiracy theory. The ICJ has at least determined there is enough of a case to answer to ask for evidence (which i suspect will not be forthcoming) and even allies are now raising concerns. In circumstances where there is at least an open question as far as a body as important as the ICJ is concerned, debate should not be shut down.
Labour is siding with those who might in the opinion of the ICJ be committing genocide, against those who wish to make sure they are not. I have no time for the petty anti-Semitism of the Corbyn era, but this cannot be defended
You stated that Isreal exaggerated and lied about 1200 civilians being killed. That confirm 1137 were killed.
That alone was enough to go after Hamas I don’t think they needed much more of a reason
LessoftheLip
Well-known member
Nobody is saying that allegations of genocide is a consipracy theory. The ICJ will establish if Israel has committed genocide or not. Regardless of whether it does, the fact remains that Netenyahu has committed atrocities in Gaza no doubt. The conspiracy theory being peddled is that Israel welcomed in Hamas unchallenged and allowed it to commit heinous crimes on Israeli women and children.
FishofContemplation
Well-known member
Yes which is what Ali said, and for which he was rightly suspended.
At least as is being presently reported, this is not what the more recently suspended candidate for Hyndburn said. If it turns out he did, then I am fine with his suspension too. Otherwise, thats the step too far. So far as is being reported, he is being accused of suggesting that those UK citizens who volunteer to commit genocide abroad are committing a crime in the UK, which they unambiguously would be, and this is what they are doing, which the ICJ says at least presents a case to answer. That is the debate that should not be shut down.
LessoftheLip
Well-known member
I think you're veering off course. Graham Jones did not mention genocide in relation to Britons volunteering to fight for the IDF. He said that Britons who volunteer to fight for the IDF “should be locked up” as it was illegal for them to do so. It isn't. You're also presuming that the ICJ will find Israel guilty of genocide merely because they are considering the accusation.
FishofContemplation
Well-known member
Possibly am if that’s correct. In those circumstances, it’s only illegal to fight for a government if the government is considered terrorist by the UK. We do as I understand treat the de facto governments of Afghanistan and Yemen as such, which is another story, but I would be comfortable with the labour party suspending him for that. We have obviously looked at different sources.
Also, so far Israel have not investigated how many of the civilians were killed by friendly fire. So
However 1137 People were killed - those people include Hamas attacker, IDF soldiers and Civilians - so far there has been no clarification on how many of the civilians killed, were murdered by Hamas or by "Friendly fire" There is video evidence and interviews from survivors to suggest many were killed by the IDF.
There were also an official narrative that Hamas deliberately targeted the musical festival. This was proven false as the musical festival was due to end the day before, with an extension only given 3 days before the attack. Also, journalists who watched the heavily produced 40minute video (used to convince journalists and influencers to support Israel) stated that the GoPro footage recovered showed Hamas terrorists surprised by the event and looking for IDF.
So, Yes - they exaggerated and lied.
And as I also said, but you seem to have ignored
"The stupid thing is the truth was bad enough, but they exaggerated it to justify the response they wanted"
this is why blindly believing what comes from Official Israeli channels is as stupid as believing what comes from Official Hamas channels
yes they said Hamas killed 1200 CIVILIANS plus lots of other exaggerations which have been proven false, but are still used in official narratives
However 1137 People were killed - those people include Hamas attacker, IDF soldiers and Civilians - so far there has been no clarification on how many of the civilians killed, were murdered by Hamas or by "Friendly fire" There is video evidence and interviews from survivors to suggest many were killed by the IDF.
There were also an official narrative that Hamas deliberately targeted the musical festival. This was proven false as the musical festival was due to end the day before, with an extension only given 3 days before the attack. Also, journalists who watched the heavily produced 40minute video (used to convince journalists and influencers to support Israel) stated that the GoPro footage recovered showed Hamas terrorists surprised by the event and looking for IDF.
So, Yes - they exaggerated and lied.
And as I also said, but you seem to have ignored
"The stupid thing is the truth was bad enough, but they exaggerated it to justify the response they wanted"
this is why blindly believing what comes from Official Israeli channels is as stupid as believing what comes from Official Hamas channels
FishofContemplation
Well-known member
That said, of course, the conspiracy theory slap down was used over the Iraq war by many, myself included, over the 45 minute claim. We all said that no government in an open democracy could possibly make something like that up to justify killing tens of thousands of its own troops and hundreds of thousands of foreign civilians because they would get caught in the end. But they did. And they were. And they largely got away with it
I’m in the camp that would have said that if they hadn’t lied I would still have felt the justifications they could have honestly made would have been acceptable to me at the time, particularly in respect of the ceasefire breaches over the first war. But they were not good enough, after the fact, I felt conned. And it’s a good argument for those who say we shouldn’t ever shut down the “conspiracy theories” entirely. Because sometimes “they” do conspire, and we never really know when if we don’t look.
Though I fully understand why the labour party needs to be so prissy at present in relation to Israel.
I’m in the camp that would have said that if they hadn’t lied I would still have felt the justifications they could have honestly made would have been acceptable to me at the time, particularly in respect of the ceasefire breaches over the first war. But they were not good enough, after the fact, I felt conned. And it’s a good argument for those who say we shouldn’t ever shut down the “conspiracy theories” entirely. Because sometimes “they” do conspire, and we never really know when if we don’t look.
Though I fully understand why the labour party needs to be so prissy at present in relation to Israel.
Funnily enough ‘Conspiracy Theory’ was apparently first coined (or resurrected) for anyone who questioned the conclusions and started picking holes in the results of the Warren Commission Report on the assassination of JFK…they judged by Oswald acting alone
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