Is it time to give up on the war on drugs in sport?

bear66 said:
Who has come from nowhere?
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If you're looking at cycling then Froome was an absolute donkey when at Barloworld, was in danger of being released without a contract from Sky, and then out of nowhere a 4 times Tour de France winner turned up !

I love the TDF, and have since I first watched it aged 10 in 1987, and to me cheating is and always has been part of the event. Since the very first tour in 1903 people have cheated their way through the tour (as well as other cycling events) and so to me it's just another part of following the sport in the same way that disputed penalties and dodgy referees are in football.

The problem with having a "no rules" approach is that it means people will push the boundaries further and further if they're not in danger of getting caught far beyond what is "safe", and anyways given drugs impact people in different ways anyway it still wouldn't be a level playing field.
 
It’s more the tech you the kit that is giving the advantage rather than any drugs they take.

the shoes in athletics are taking so much time off the records I can see them banned soon enough.

the tech in cycling was always a strong point for the GB team… the others have finally caught up and we aren’t world beaters any more
 
No, and never give up on calling out the cheats. A life time ban for those who are caught.
What ever happened to the doctor who prescribed medication which contained in part a banned substance and to the athlete? As WS already posted, it's money that talks and has effected all sports in some terrific ways, but also can have a negative effect.
 
jonny_greenings_sock said:
I follow cycling and there's been crazy times and performances all year.

Theory is that, because of COVID obviously, much harder for testers to travel and perform random tests in the last 18 months.

So if you're taking things that enhance your ability to train rather than sprint faster on the day, you've had a free swing for the last year.
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Not sure what cycling you have been watching but I wouldn't describe the times this year as 'crazy' or neither have I heard of it been harder for testers so they are all doping!
 
The_Lizards_Jumpers said:
If you're looking at cycling then Froome was an absolute donkey when at Barloworld, was in danger of being released without a contract from Sky, and then out of nowhere a 4 times Tour de France winner turned up !

I love the TDF, and have since I first watched it aged 10 in 1987, and to me cheating is and always has been part of the event. Since the very first tour in 1903 people have cheated their way through the tour (as well as other cycling events) and so to me it's just another part of following the sport in the same way that disputed penalties and dodgy referees are in football.

The problem with having a "no rules" approach is that it means people will push the boundaries further and further if they're not in danger of getting caught far beyond what is "safe", and anyways given drugs impact people in different ways anyway it still wouldn't be a level playing field.
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Ah, Froome, who had an undiagnosed parasitic disease (bilharzia) that was hampering him for years...

I'm certainly not a blinkered fan but Froome has a decent excuse and was spotted at Barloworld by Sky based on his performances so he hardly came from nowhere.
 
MolteniArcore said:
Ah, Froome, who had an undiagnosed parasitic disease (bilharzia) that was hampering him for years...

I'm certainly not a blinkered fan but Froome has a decent excuse and was spotted at Barloworld by Sky based on his performances so he hardly came from nowhere.
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Or so he claims anyway.

He was brought to Sky as a domestique, which he didn't do very well and Brailsford was actively looking to off load him but had no takers - then all of a sudden he's a 4 x TDF winner. He came from nowhere, he had next to no palmares before 2011.
 
MolteniArcore said:
Not sure what cycling you have been watching but I wouldn't describe the times this year as 'crazy' or neither have I heard of it been harder for testers so they are all doping!
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Oh, I'm really no expert (I think you regularly thrash me in the FMTTM fantasy cycling leagues 😁) but I've read a few articles on how times on iconic climbs over the last two years are being smashed or at 2003 levels, but there's not much attention as it's hard to quantify. A few riders (Bernal maybe?) have said that their power levels are the same as a few years ago but now they're struggling to keep up. Found this forum which has some interesting examples.

Even as a fairly casual fan, Pogacar is either the greatest grand tour rider of all time or doesn't pass the sniff test. Padun was more than eyebrow-raising. WVA is a brilliant talent and gets a pass because he's so popular but winning a flat time trial, then a mountaintop finish on Mount Ventoux and then the sprint in Paris on three consecutive days? That's a bit much.

I kind of expected it but it also made me laugh when the cycling team pursuit WR was broken four times in a row the other day.
 
WoodallServices said:
I think someone said on here in 2007 Usain Bolt had never run under ten seconds.
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Usain Bolt was an awesome sprinter ever since he was a teenager.

The Italian guy who just won the 100m in one of the fastest times ever (if you cross off all the times from the proven drugs cheats) has come out of nowwhere and was not even a sprinter until quite recently. It is either an amazing story, or...
 
I'm sure I read somewhere that Bolt's 200m time at the age of 16/17 would have won a medal at that year's World Championships final.

I watched the documentary Icarus a few months ago and it does make me question most high achieving athletes that I see now.
 
Steer said:
Usain Bolt was an awesome sprinter ever since he was a teenager.

The Italian guy who just won the 100m in one of the fastest times ever (if you cross off all the times from the proven drugs cheats) has come out of nowwhere and was not even a sprinter until quite recently. It is either an amazing story, or...
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He was primarily a long jumper till he was 24. He jumped a wind assisted 8.48m 5 years ago. He's been solely sprinting for just over 2 years ago. His 200m PB was 3 years ago. He ran 10.03s in 2019 for 100m, so he hasn't come from nowhere. 9.8s is phenomenal though, helped to some degree by track and spikes.

The silver medallist Ferley was a 400m runner prior to covid with a 43.6s. His 9.84s is just as amazing in his first year of competing at 100m.
 
The use of PED's in athletics I am absolutely sure is widespread and whilst improved shoe design might help, I think it's a very naive view to deny the obvious.

For example, Jamaican running has gone from nowhere to prolific in a relatively short space of time. How can that be? Do they have a brilliant infrastructure?

For a country that has less than 3 million inhabitants their competitiveness is startling.
 
Jonny Ingbar said:
The use of PED's in athletics I am absolutely sure is widespread and whilst improved shoe design might help, I think it's a very naive view to deny the obvious.

For example, Jamaican running has gone from nowhere to prolific in a relatively short space of time. How can that be? Do they have a brilliant infrastructure?

For a country that has less than 3 million inhabitants their competitiveness is startling.
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Exactly! I‘ve always said someone like Usain Bolt could be a phenomenon and you’d expect one or two good athletes from Jamaica but suddenly they’re producing 1,2,3’s in the blue ribbon events and wiping the floor with the Americans in the relay…..really?
 
jonny_greenings_sock said:
I follow cycling and there's been crazy times and performances all year.

Theory is that, because of COVID obviously, much harder for testers to travel and perform random tests in the last 18 months.

So if you're taking things that enhance your ability to train rather than sprint faster on the day, you've had a free swing for the last year.
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Tadaj Pogacar's performances at the TdF did raise my eyebrows somewhat. Some of the climbs he made reminded me of the Lance Era.
 
The_Lizards_Jumpers said:
Or so he claims anyway.

He was brought to Sky as a domestique, which he didn't do very well and Brailsford was actively looking to off load him but had no takers - then all of a sudden he's a 4 x TDF winner. He came from nowhere, he had next to no palmares before 2011.
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So you are telling me that Brailsford saw Froome, decided he was rubbish and signed him anyway? Ok.

And we might be clutching at straws saying his whole medical history is fabricated. I don't even think Armstrong was as clever as that.
 
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