Be careful what you wish for - is something fans of an awful lot of clubs would say to you from Oldham, Scunthorpe, Chesterfield and Bury to Derby County and Everton.
Interest in club
- Thread starter Paulh10
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BaronSmoggie
Well-known member
Then, and purely on that emotive point, I would welcome his investment. A billionaire with decency.
indeedido
Well-known member
Absolutely true, as I posted on the Gibson thread. There is considerable tax benefit to Group through having the debt, and Boro's losses offsetting the Bulkhaul profits.
Ironops
Well-known member
Taking over a sleeping giant outside the Prem, pumping money, getting promoted and then selling when they get into the Prem is a well worn path - but unless youre buying an international household name it doesnt seem to work and the foreign owner gets bored and stops putting the cash in, we end up back where we were
Plus there are arguably better candidate clubs with potentially bigger fan bases than us - Sheff Wed off the top of my head
Plus there are arguably better candidate clubs with potentially bigger fan bases than us - Sheff Wed off the top of my head
indeedido
Well-known member
Give over Rob, stop scaremongering about the bogeyman.
If the club was being really successful on the pitch and had any value then people might be scared of someone else coming in and running it badly.
Of course there could be bad potential new owners, but there could also be very good ones too.
The only thing that has changed recently is the colour of the directors box seats...
Frozen Horse
Well-known member
I can see how that is beneficial and practical if you want to maintain both businesses anyway. However, I've heard the argument that "Gibson keeps the club on for tax reasons" argument a few times, with this used as the basis for it. I find that hard to buy as I don't believe businessmen consider profit to be a bad thing; he'd surely come out with more profit by ditching Boro and just paying the tax on Bulkhaul's profits?
As I say, I can see the sense of the set up if he want to run both business for their own sake, but not as a means of having greater income overall.
indeedido
Well-known member
I get your drift, but it takes proper wealth/backing to make it happen.
And as importantly, strong know-how, employing quality people. And being committed to it - Villa style.
Wednesday are underwater to the tune of £66m, about half of our position, mainly due to the £56m they owe their owner in a loan beyond 12 months. This is 39% of what MFC owes Gibson O'Neill under similar terms. They also lose money.
They probably do have similar pulling power to us, so on the face of it would be a better bet to take on?
However their stadium is a relic and simply not fit for purpose. They have no Rockliffe style training facility. Their infrastructure is not in the same league. A prospective new owner would have to factor those infrastructure transformational costs in (though would obviously depreciate the assets over a far longer period than amortising footballers over their contracts)
indeedido
Well-known member
I agree FH - but then I do think that Steve Gibson can't think of anybody else owning the club he regards as very much his.
Bulkhaul is brilliant, why would he get rid?
MFC is turgid, but it is his "Precious".
He appears reconciled to diluting Bulkhaul, but taking the tax benefits - to in part offset the cost of Precious.
It would be fine if MFC was performing.
Jonny Ingbar
Well-known member
I'm not as keen on the 'rich foreign investor' proposition as some, as it seems to go badly more often than it being a success.
Sunderland, a club outwardly bigger and more attractive than ours, have a foreign owner that had been frugal in terms if investment and, according to some reports, created a slightly dysfunctional environment.
I'd rather the club was ran on a sustainable basis, not just season by season, but over the longer term too.
Sunderland, a club outwardly bigger and more attractive than ours, have a foreign owner that had been frugal in terms if investment and, according to some reports, created a slightly dysfunctional environment.
I'd rather the club was ran on a sustainable basis, not just season by season, but over the longer term too.
indeedido
Well-known member
I don't care if our players, manager or owner is foreign, British or from a TS postcode.
I am bothered about their quality and their application.
GibbosEmpire
Well-known member
But then what? Gibson isn't going to be around forever, is his daughter going to take over?
I think Gibson has done wonderful things for the club, or at least he did for his first 15 years in charge, and yet he doesn't seem to have grown the club in any way since the 90s. Everything he does seems to be about consolidating the fanbase into a smaller number. Everything is geared towards season ticket holders only and he even tried writing off people from Stockton which is where half our fans come from. We have become more and more parochial over the years.
There is so much more money that the club can make, without just ripping fans off and even improving things for fans with lower ticket prices, cheaper (or at least better value) merchandise by increasing the fanbase and selling the product to more people. We had international players and we were competing in Europe and the PL and we made no attempt to grow the fanbase. The English game has grown globally to the point that it is now watched around the world and yet we've done nothing to capture any part of that expanding market. Do we have any fans that don't have a direct link to Teesside? This is the busiest Boro message board but I don't think I've ever seen anyone on it from another country that has become a fan from afar, nobody asking how to get tickets, best hotels/travel options etc.
Gibson invested a lot of money in the club to improve things and then stopped and let everyone else overtake us. The things that made us unique like a new stadium, state of the art training facilities etc are now run of the mill (and probably outdated by now). Gibson clearly has no intention on improving things in that regard so we're probably going to need a new owner before we see any attempt at expanding.
Gibson is a business man so it seems odd that he doesn't seem to run the club as a business. He runs it like he's playing football manager and he's got most of the settings on auto. He only gets involved in hiring/firing managers and the odd big transfer that the manager had no interest in. He used to be far more hands on but I think he's got bored of most of it over the years.
There is so much more money that the club can make, without just ripping fans off and even improving things for fans with lower ticket prices, cheaper (or at least better value) merchandise by increasing the fanbase and selling the product to more people. We had international players and we were competing in Europe and the PL and we made no attempt to grow the fanbase. The English game has grown globally to the point that it is now watched around the world and yet we've done nothing to capture any part of that expanding market. Do we have any fans that don't have a direct link to Teesside? This is the busiest Boro message board but I don't think I've ever seen anyone on it from another country that has become a fan from afar, nobody asking how to get tickets, best hotels/travel options etc.
Gibson invested a lot of money in the club to improve things and then stopped and let everyone else overtake us. The things that made us unique like a new stadium, state of the art training facilities etc are now run of the mill (and probably outdated by now). Gibson clearly has no intention on improving things in that regard so we're probably going to need a new owner before we see any attempt at expanding.
Gibson is a business man so it seems odd that he doesn't seem to run the club as a business. He runs it like he's playing football manager and he's got most of the settings on auto. He only gets involved in hiring/firing managers and the odd big transfer that the manager had no interest in. He used to be far more hands on but I think he's got bored of most of it over the years.
Keanu_Reeves
Active member
There's no such thing as zero chance
r00fie1
Well-known member
An Macclesfield an Bolton, West Brom [watch this space], Reading........
The grass isnt greener because someone has a bigger cheque book.
Once you join the football casino - you become nothing more than a commodity traded corrupt toxic cesspit football stock exchange.
THE MEN WHO SELL FOOTBALL:
This documentary reveals how English football clubs can be bought by convicted criminals and become vehicles to launder dirty money. The football dealmakers – who link foreign buyers with British football clubs - tell undercover reporters how they can hide a criminal’s money and identity behind offshore trusts and use “dirty tricks” to deceive the football authorities. Chris Samuelson, an offshore finance expert and Keith Hunter, a former Scotland Yard detective, also offer our fictitious criminal a new identity by purchasing an EU passport for 10m euro. Our undercover reporters reach the brink of striking a deal for the criminal investor to buy Derby County FC, one of England’s oldest football clubs. The Men who Sell Football is the prequel to the Bafta-nominated documentary, The Cyprus Papers Undercover, released in October 2020. Samuelson’s lawyers say that he was never told about Mr X’s criminal convictions. Had he known, he would have ended discussions immediately. Hunter says that he strongly disputes most of our findings.
Archiestephens_elbow
Well-known member
Everything is for sale if the price is right
Bruce
Well-known member
True. If I were a billionaire looking to create a stable of clubs with the general idea that across the whole group I break even then Boro is just one club I would look at.
There are a lot of things to consider but unless you're buying one of the established clubs in a tier 1 league in the UK and Europe then you're looking for a club with the greatest potential to improve and the highest ceiling. You also don't want a basket case. It needs robust facilities (even if they're a bit tired), no complicated debt structures and something to work with in terms of players.
We undoubtedly have all of these. Clubs like this are getting snapped up; looks like Norwich is being taken over fully now. You definitely have clubs like Sheff Wed, WBA, Ipswich and so on.
The huge pro and con for Boro is Steve Gibson. What he says goes. If he likes you, then you can agree the outline of deal over lunch while wearing a high-viz jacket. If you don't, there's nothing going down. Your average billionaire will be uncomfortable being the junior partner in a one-man show.
Reading between the lines, I think Gibson still reckons he can get us into the Premier league by himself. If we're not there in 2 years then maybe he looks to sell. He doesn't seem the type to relish having to deal with someone else.
BoroMart
Well-known member
You can tie players to longer deals, you just cannot amortise longer than 5 years
Druss_The_Legend
Well-known member
In an ideal takeover and I don't know if this is possible as I'm not an expert on.... Well anything!
But say an investor bought 19% of the club then in 2 year bought 10% then a year after they bought another 10% and did that until they had a 49% stake in the club(5 year schedule) then after that they had the option to buy a majority stake or buy complete control. That way it gets them used to the club and Gibson can get a better idea whether they are a good fit for the club before handing over full control. I don't know if this was possible but it would be a much smoother transition and easing the fans anxieties than some alternative options.
But say an investor bought 19% of the club then in 2 year bought 10% then a year after they bought another 10% and did that until they had a 49% stake in the club(5 year schedule) then after that they had the option to buy a majority stake or buy complete control. That way it gets them used to the club and Gibson can get a better idea whether they are a good fit for the club before handing over full control. I don't know if this was possible but it would be a much smoother transition and easing the fans anxieties than some alternative options.