I wonder if any more Tory MP's will have the courage to admit

Universal Credit was frozen for many years under the Conservatives - so when inflation is taken into account it was cut, 5 years of freezing is an effective cut of around 12% to 15%. To me it was cruel cut over a long period when OAPs were getting an approx 20% up lift over 5 years. Many OAPs nowadays have other pensions and/or other income. The cuts in universal credit are often cuts in the budget available for food. Its not like they can sacrifice the annual holiday because they are unlikely to have one if long term on this benefit. All Conservatives to my knowledge voted for these cuts when the fully approved Chancellor Budgets. The middle of the road media also did not shout out which was very telling. It was just all put down to needed austerity cuts. Often the weakest in society have little or no voice.

Most people on universal credit are in some sort of work but its often part time or living/minimum wage. Many have dependents that need care which stop the receiptant from working full time. Cuts in social care has resulted in more family carers. Or the receiptant has medical conditions which limit the type and amount of work they can do e.g learning difficulties/disabilities. If someone is not trying to find suitbale employment they are sanctioned with the benefit cut or withdrawn. There are regular checks on receiptants. When people were moved onto UC the relvant Governement minister (Amber Rudd) said the average person would have their total benefit level cut after earlier denying it.

Rents have been rising faster than inflation for many years and more & more renters have to pay the full market rate. In the past rents were aften subsidised by local authorities and social housing landlords but this is less common now. Energy costs has also risen faster than inflation and some rental properties have poor energy efficiency and the tenants are limited on what they can do.

In areas like High Wycombe incomes have been rising but incomes are not rising equally. Quite well to do families have moved out of London to places like Wycombe in the last 18 months in particular, but this have pushed up local prices for everyone. My guess in the local difference between the well off and low income has increased of late.

Parts of the pandemic will be with us beyond the end of September, this £20 cut seems like token meanness to me, when other Government support packages will go beyond that date. Why not raise Universal Credit in the same way that OAPs are increased every year and keep the £20 payment until Covid has fully gone lets say infections below 100 per day.
 
The issue with the OAP is the triple lock that is in statute. The higher of: average pay, inflation and the other I have forgotten.

The current chancellor is trying to change it.

Not all OAPs have a second income, but I get your point.
 
Unfortunately they have a good polling operation, know who is likely to vote for them and what they want to hear.

Planning changes in the shires will do them more damage than really nasty stuff like this. I work with many people affected by these UC issues and it's awful. Yet if you don't have reason to be on the estates and meet with these people, it's so easy to just pretend that everyone is like you and was raised in a regular fashion like you were.
 
I think no matter what happens the next few years it won't affect their popularity too much. The brexit people will keep voting for them and never admit they were duped.

Just as for the first 8 years in office they blamed the labour caused financial crisis, for the next few they will blame Covid on any issues which are really of their own incompetence.
 
Stepper_T said:
I think no matter what happens the next few years it won't affect their popularity too much. The brexit people will keep voting for them and never admit they were duped.

Just as for the first 8 years in office they blamed the labour caused financial crisis, for the next few they will blame Covid on any issues which are really of their own incompetence.
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That’s the problem isn’t it? The got Brexit dun crowd seem to be strengthening their resolve the worse it becomes. It’s something I really can’t understand. Why are people so afraid of admitting mistakes that they have to get ever more vocal and desperate to defend them?
 
Same_as_before said:
The issue with the OAP is the triple lock that is in statute. The higher of: average pay, inflation and the other I have forgotten.

The current chancellor is trying to change it.

Not all OAPs have a second income, but I get your point.
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I think the average retired income is £25k a year now - lots of adverts for cruises on day time TV. It will be a minority on the state pension only.
 
jeff_potato said:
Unfortunately they have a good polling operation, know who is likely to vote for them and what they want to hear.

Planning changes in the shires will do them more damage than really nasty stuff like this. I work with many people affected by these UC issues and it's awful. Yet if you don't have reason to be on the estates and meet with these people, it's so easy to just pretend that everyone is like you and was raised in a regular fashion like you were.
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Yes I have noticed this that many people nowdays are in bubbles. (Hence BREXIT Vote was almost total shock to most BBC staff) One thing I like about this board is that people have different opinions and I do read and think about what people have posted, especially evidence opposed to opinion.

Planning really scares the shires because they think it will reduce the value of their properties and their generally nice life styles. Of course that is never said openly.
 
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Redwurzel said:
Planning really scares the shires because they think it will rediuce the value of their properties and their generally nice life styles. Of course that is never said openly.
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Really good point. It seems that maintaining house prices is the major aim of every Conservative government.
 
Personal debt creation is a massive driver in Conservative policy and has been since the Thatcher and Reagan espousal of Friedmanism to create the mechanics of neo-feudalism.

The selling off of council houses was merely a device to get people into debt and the subsequent booms and boosts of capitalism, the lack of social housing, and the ease in which credit has become readily available to more and more people are all parts of this process.
 
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House ownership and rising values a big thing. A lot of Red Wall Tory seats have high and rising home ownership figures. Maybe not high values but quite high ownership. At the other end of the country in nice parts of London like Islington its solid Labour with quite a bit of affluence and nice incomes but property ownership is not high and is decreasing.

I tend to believe voting is primarily but not exclusively driven by perceived self interest.
 
Corcaigh_the_Cat said:
Shocking state if affairs isn't it. The poor attacked year after year.

And by the way, let's not pretend were generous with state pensions, we're far from it.
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The full state pension is about £9,000 and basic state pension about £6,500 - I agree on their own not good. Job seekers allowance was around £3,600 a year.

However since the 1960s there were occupational pensions and since 1988 anyone could have a private pension.

My first employer had a occupational scheme of 60ths - so after 30 years you got a pension of half your leaving salary, 40 years it was two thirds. So if I started in 1980 and left in 2020 and earned £30,000 at the end. My occupational pension was £20,000 add on basic state pension of 6,500 and you are on £26,500. Not uncommon for that generation say born in the early 1950s.
 
Redwurzel,
Where do you get your information that the average pension is £25K (before tax I assume). I think there are many pensioners who's income is only the state pension (£9,300) and many where the private / company pension certainly is not at £15,700 a year. The lack of many workers pension provision is what drove the Government to make companies offer a pension scheme and employees having to join a scheme if over 18.
If you are talking a married couple both in receipt of a state pension plus a work pension then yes I could believe £25K, and while to some on minimum wage that seems a lot of money, it's not exactly living a life of luxury.
For younger people having to contribute into a pension scheme you can take with you between companies is one of the best things to happen, sadly there is a group of the population where these changes came too late for them to save a decent amount towards their retirement, especially when many are expected to live to 86 or longer so potentially have 20+ years to fund themselves.
A good point about having universal credit increased in a similar way that the state pension is managed, as you could argue UC payment is less than the pension amount, yet those on it have expenses pensioners don't eg kids that need supporting.
 
Redwurzel said:
The full state pension is about £9,000 and basic state pension about £6,500 - I agree on their own not good. Job seekers allowance was around £3,600 a year.

However since the 1960s there were occupational pensions and since 1988 anyone could have a private pension.

My first employer had a occupational scheme of 60ths - so after 30 years you got a pension of half your leaving salary, 40 years it was two thirds. So if I started in 1980 and left in 2020 and earned £30,000 at the end. My occupational pension was £20,000 add on basic state pension of 6,500 and you are on £26,500. Not uncommon for that generation say born in the early 1950s.
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How many of those occupational pensions that were offered in the 70's and 80's have continued running to the present day, yes for those in the public sector but many private companies stopped them as they were far too costly, and of course many funds were underfunded or some sadly robbed ( mirror group employees) by the likes of Maxwell.
I did read an article once about pensions and the cost of the rises awarded by the MP's to themselves (who have a very generous pension scheme) stating to provide a pre-tax pension of £35K a year, the pension fund needs to be at least £750K given average life expectancy. That fund level not put in place by the contribution from the employee and the employer, hence those schemes stopped.
I like many, have 5 different schemes in place due to changing roles during my working life, it could have been 11, some companies I never joined their schemes (big mistake) 13 years missed and only state system paid into. Anyone who is approaching retirement in the next 5-10 years if they only have the state scheme then they are in a poor place, but this started about those on benefits not pensions. I started about 5 years ago ramping up my contributions, and have just under 5 to go all being well till retirement, but have to cut back spending now to ensure income in retirement is OK.
 
American_Mary said:
Personal debt creation is a massive driver in Conservative policy and has been since Thatcher and Reagan espousal of Friedmanism to create the mechanics of neo-feudalism.

The selling off of council houses was merely a device to get people into debt and the subsequent booms and boosts of capitalism, the lack of social housing, and the ease in which credit has become easily available to more and more people are all parts of the process.
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Spot on.👍

A lot of Tory voters subsequently believe they’re far wealthier than they actually are due to house prices and the fact they’re hocked up to eyeballs in debt for all the possessions they have.
 
It's all coming crashing down..

Recent vote has Rishi as favourite choice for new Tory leader.
 
WoodallServices said:
Spot on.👍

A lot of Tory voters subsequently believe they’re far wealthier than they actually are due to house prices and the fact they’re hocked up to eyeballs in debt for all the possessions they have.
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a lot of those council houses were sold at a substantial discount and for those anywhere near the london area they were effectively gifted a financial windfall regardless of them having a mortgage to buy the home.
 
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