How united really is the world on the attack on the Ukraine

Jedi boro

Jedi boro

Well-known member
This as close to a general global vote on the issue that we will probably get

And the results are not as clear cut as you may think.

In favor: 93 Abstained: 58 Against: 24

The votes in full

26DD25A5-D6FA-4608-A7A8-BDDF95763322.jpeg
 
Really interesting.
Have you read Never by Ken Follett ? A brilliant book showing how what appear isolated events across the world can eventually lead to a world conflagration. In the case of NEVER between China and USA and how through a series of limited and always "proportionate" responses we get to a nuclear war. Everyone reacts in face saving manner but merely escalates a conflict from regional to global step by step.
Anyway, what is really relevant to the starting point in this thread is how in NEVER, China buys support for a UN Resolution. One country and one particular infrastructure project is singled out and China make it clear at diplomatic level that they could pull the plug. It isn't something that will really hurt China of course but the threat, not veiled, starts a domino effect in the UN of countries abstaining or voting against a motion US has proposed about 3rd party arms sales.
You look down that list of countries that abstained and voted against and see the links to Russia and China. Countries that have probably already sold their soul due to Russian or perhaps Chinese money or been given the eyes that they might regret in the future if they don't vote in the right manner.
Have a look at NEVER Jedi - it is very long but a totally compelling read. Especially now.
 
Thanks I will check that out.

As you say what really stands out to me is the number of African especially Central African nations that have abstained over this.

I agree that this is due to their close links to Moscow and Beijing.

South Africa was the biggest surprise to me
 
Really glad you posted this up because I had no idea either. But am now thinking of all those posh cricket venues Chia financed in the West Indies or who might have put in roads and schools in some African countries or who might supply arms in Asia and Africa.
It is interesting that United Nations votes obviously matter to Russia (and China).
 
Most who voted against are tinpot dictatorships.

Those who abstained may possibly believe that Russia needs to be at the table in order to effect any meaningful change.

I'm actually reassured that countries like Hungary and Serbia have voted in favour of expulsion.
 
Both India and Pakistan abstained, wonder how much oil they will be sponging off Russia. Khan was in Moscow after it all kicked off, no doubt feathering his nest.
 
At the same time, only 24 out of 193 actually had the complete lack of integrity to vote against the motion.

Each one a country that you'd not question being called scummy.
 
I think that's pretty encouraging actually. Only 24 voted against and Russia has been suspended from the UNHCR. Of those voting against there is really only China that is significant, the others are pretty much in the Russia's pocket. Pressure is mounting on India in particular to distance themselves from Putin.

I see that NATO has now refused to detail what weapons they will provide to Ukraine. Hopefully this will mean things like long range air defence systems and anti-ship missiles as well as perhaps a few redundant Migs and T72s finding their way into the hands of those who can put them to good use.
 
Norfolkred1 said:
I saw him fly out, thought it was after. My bad.
Click to expand...
Yes it was on the same day, as people were amazed at a time the world was shocked he was seen shaking his hand.

www.wsj.com

Pakistan’s Leader Went Ahead With Russia Visit Despite Push to Isolate Putin Over Ukraine

Shortly after the full-scale Russian invasion began, Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan met with the Russian president in the Kremlin, shaking hands in front of the cameras and sitting right next to him for talks.
www.wsj.com www.wsj.com
 
Muttley said:
I think that's pretty encouraging actually. Only 24 voted against and Russia has been suspended from the UNHCR. Of those voting against there is really only China that is significant, the others are pretty much in the Russia's pocket. Pressure is mounting on India in particular to distance themselves from Putin.
Click to expand...
I've always been very supportive of our foreign aid to India, but India should be alerted to it's divergence away from common values will lead to a change in our relationship and a withdrawal of foreign aid.
 
In May, both Sweden and Finland are due to formally apply for membership of NATO. It is unlikely that they will be successful. 1. Russia has stated its intention to attack them if they do, probably with missile strikes. They will do this because NATO applications can't be accepted from nations in conflict. 2. Germany has already said that they will veto the application. Why? Because they are heavily dependent upon Russian gas imports (having Nordstream 1 &2 as joint ventures with Russia) and so would not go to war with Russia if Russia attacked either of those states.

As was pointed out the other day, this has nothing much to do with the German people, but more to do with the politicians and big business.
But it will tell you that national (for that read economic) interest will come before unity.

Better news (from my usual source), the elite 76th Guards Airborne Division, normally based in Pskov to take care of any Baltic conflict, have been in Ukraine and have downed weapons, effectively becoming Refuseniks because they wouldn't tolerate orders to kill civilians. Apparently their officers have been arrested for treason and the soldiers confined to their barracks under armed guard. If true, this would indicate that there is some collective morality at play in some quarters of the Russian military. It's a blow to Putin as they were his best fighting division left.
 
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To be fair that's a lot stronger than I thought it would be. You've got to remember we have a pretty strongly Western Centric outlook and media over here. It's easy to think the world agrees with us when everything you see and every nation talked about on the news does.

Remove the "Stans", and countries like Belarus and Cuba (and of Course Russia themselves had a vote) and it's very much an anti Russian vote. Key take outs for me are China voted with Russia which shows that any trade embargo or financial pressure applied on the country are likely to only be of limited success.

Serbia voting against them has to be unexpected? Turkey is significant too. A large and reasonably powerful country, with no real western OR eastern bias and that controls Russia's access to it's stolen warm water port. Interesting.
 
Jedi boro said:
Thanks I will check that out.

As you say what really stands out to me is the number of African especially Central African nations that have abstained over this.

I agree that this is due to their close links to Moscow and Beijing.

South Africa was the biggest surprise to me
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I think this is a key take out too: It's not even a pro Russia vote. China has invested heavily in lots of African countries and of course is the superpower in Asia. More likely their vote was more a "do as china do" than anything particularly pro Russian
 
Also: more of a process thing than anything political: Why are there blanks? I assume Turkmenistan and Azerbaijan would have voted pro Russia but their votes are blank? If you don't vote for, against, or abstain, what else is there?
 
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