Herd Immunity Sweden

Cardiffdaffs said:
Their death rate is notably higher. Here is a pm interesting piece in the Times this morning.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...s?shareToken=43a5debe2ea5d1044e526305644ddd10
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There was a combination of a large pool of vulnerable people and a system where care homes are large, with a lot of poorly paid staff, often immigrants with a poor grasp of Swedish and insufficient PPE. They failed, as a few nations did, to keep the virus out of those large institutions. Hence 5000 of their 5800 deaths being in the over 70 age group and most with critical co-morbidities. The most frequent co-morbidity is high blood pressure, which doesn't surprise me as the Swedes put insane amounts of salt in and on their food.
 
Borolad - apologies for hijacking the thread, but you'll remember a discussion on a thread earlier in lockdown regards looking for a place in Sweden..

Well we've bit the bullet and bought a place outside Linkoping on the Gota canal, Mrs was over there last week and we go next to pick up keys - can't wait!

Any suggestions of good value DIY/furniture stores greatly appreciated :D
 
Londons_Moggie said:
Manaus in Brazil reached herd immunity. City of 2m and just over 3k deaths
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Manaus will have loads of their population who arent registered anywhere, will be impossible to know the number of cases or deaths they really had, but looking at the photos coming out of the city over the last few months, I would guess more than 3k died
 
Londons_Moggie said:
Manaus in Brazil reached herd immunity. City of 2m and just over 3k deaths
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1500 deaths/million seems a very high toll.

Of nations, only San Marino's is above 1000/million, and that's a bit of a statistical freak, as the whole place only has a population of 35k (ie. a single death counts as over 28 deaths/million).

IF that is what is needed to achieve heard immunity (and I'm not convinced it is), Manaus is an argument against it.
 
Frozen Horse said:
1500 deaths/million seems a very high toll.

Of nations, only San Marino's is above 1000/million, and that's a bit of a statistical freak, as the whole place only has a population of 35k (ie. a single death counts as over 28 deaths/million).

IF that is what is needed to achieve heard immunity (and I'm not convinced it is), Manaus is an argument against it.
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I looked some time back at some cities. New York had about 1700 deaths per million. The highest Borough in London was about 1200 at the time. Bergamo was about 3500.
 
bear66 said:
I looked some time back at some cities. New York had about 1700 deaths per million. The highest Borough in London was about 1200 at the time. Bergamo was about 3500.
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OK, but policy is going to be made at a national level isn't it?
If we are considering herd immunity as an approach to handling this, it surely has to be consistent across a country, rather than little pockets of localized immunity?
 
Frozen Horse said:
OK, but policy is going to be made at a national level isn't it?
If we are considering herd immunity as an approach to handling this, it surely has to be consistent across a country, rather than little pockets of localized immunity?
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I don't think any of those were planned! But New York has had relatively low numbers of deaths over the last three months, as have other eastern states.

Rome is the really oddity in how it has remained relatively unscathed.
 
Talking to a friend in Norway last night and they are in a second wave there too. They are blaming Norwegians that thought they deserved holidays in their second homes in Spain and those that put price before pandemic and nipped over the border to Sweden for cheap booze and shopping. Sweden's policies can impact on their neighbours as well when they don't stay away.
 
bear66 said:
A relative of mine has been living there since late July (he has a house there, but normally lives in the Netherlands). He can't believe how well the Swedes social distance there, even though not mandatory, compared with Holland and the UK where he has also been for 4 weeks since March.
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The Swedes have a totally different outlook to the UK. They are far bigger believers in the importance of a functioning society, and happily (mostly) pay high taxes for high quality public services. It doesn't surprise me at all that the population can be trusted to take a sensible community minded approach. That said, like here, their care homes have been very badly affected.
 
wilkos_perm said:
The Swedes have a totally different outlook to the UK. They are far bigger believers in the importance of a functioning society, and happily (mostly) pay high taxes for high quality public services. It doesn't surprise me at all that the population can be trusted to take a sensible community minded approach. That said, like here, their care homes have been very badly affected.
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From a Swedish doctor.
Its a long read but worth it if to get the full picture.

https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2020/09/21/more-covid19-news-from-sweden/
 
rob_fmttm said:
Talking to a friend in Norway last night and they are in a second wave there too. They are blaming Norwegians that thought they deserved holidays in their second homes in Spain and those that put price before pandemic and nipped over the border to Sweden for cheap booze and shopping. Sweden's policies can impact on their neighbours as well when they don't stay away.
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They are just beginning their first wave really Rob, as they kept the virus out in the Spring. It was always going to be a problem when they relaxed rules and came out of lockdown as they would have a ready vulnerable population. You wouldn't expect them to have such a huge problem as Sweden had though because the population is much smaller, the cities are smaller and the population is spread out over mountainous areas that create physical barriers between villages/towns etc Fjords for instance.
 
wilkos_perm said:
The Swedes have a totally different outlook to the UK. They are far bigger believers in the importance of a functioning society, and happily (mostly) pay high taxes for high quality public services. It doesn't surprise me at all that the population can be trusted to take a sensible community minded approach. That said, like here, their care homes have been very badly affected.
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They are also much happy to self isolate!

Financially I do think Sweden is my favourite country. They are leading the world in the trip to a cashless society and the rejected joining the Eurozone a while back because the campaign told them it would cut taxes. Something they clearly don't want!
 
borolad259 said:
They are just beginning their first wave really Rob, as they kept the virus out in the Spring. It was always going to be a problem when they relaxed rules and came out of lockdown as they would have a ready vulnerable population. You wouldn't expect them to have such a huge problem as Sweden had though because the population is much smaller, the cities are smaller and the population is spread out over mountainous areas that create physical barriers between villages/towns etc Fjords for instance.
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They would definitely say second wave - as they locked down really hard, really early, much stricter than us. Now they have gone into reverse again. My friend was talking about cities - Bergen and Oslo.
 
SmallTown said:
They are also much happy to self isolate!

Financially I do think Sweden is my favourite country. They are leading the world in the trip to a cashless society and the rejected joining the Eurozone a while back because the campaign told them it would cut taxes. Something they clearly don't want!
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A cashless society is a very dangerous one.
 
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