Hackney

Handsome said:
Have you read the articles for the assault on the police officer?
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No I haven't. But as I said in my first reply, the police have been dishonest so many times over the years I'm not sure I'd taken anything reported in articles as particularly reliable anyway.

Anyone reading the articles in 2005 would say Jean Charles de Menezes had a great big backpack, jumped the tube barriers and ran from police but that turned out not to be right. Anyone reading the articles in 2009 would say Ian Tomlinson was part of the G20 protests, and tripped and that caused his death but that turned out not to be right as well. Orgreave, Hillsborough, etc. Loads of examples.

Taking the two videos as the hard evidence of what you can see definitely happened, they both start part way through the respective incidents. That's all I'm saying.
 
SuperStu said:
No I haven't. But as I said in my first reply, the police have been dishonest so many times over the years I'm not sure I'd taken anything reported in articles as particularly reliable anyway.

Anyone reading the articles in 2005 would say Jean Charles de Menezes had a great big backpack, jumped the tube barriers and ran from police but that turned out not to be right. Anyone reading the articles in 2009 would say Ian Tomlinson was part of the G20 protests, and tripped and that caused his death but that turned out not to be right as well. Orgreave, Hillsborough, etc. Loads of examples.

Taking the two videos as the hard evidence of what you can see definitely happened, they both start part way through the respective incidents. That's all I'm saying.
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Okay, fair enough they have lied in the past yes which is awful, but I just can't compare the two videos one is racist and one I believe isn't, until there is more evidence it is only my opinion
 
Fair enough you're entitled to your opinion of course.

Wasn't intending to insinuate anything about you btw, just pointing out what seemed to me like a little inconsistency.
 
The reality is any attack on a police officer, whether black or white is simply wrong. Most Officers are reasonable if you are with them. Start exercising your public right to be a d*ckhead and of course the police react. However, I have seen many an officer pushed beyond what I consider reasonable and stayed calm. The people who call them from a pig to a dog are usually the first to demand help if they become a victim. Filming attacks on anyone for personal fun is sick.

If you have not done anything wrong, just work with the police and 99.999% of the time things will be dealt with correctly in the long run. Causing a rumpus of any sort and you will end up creating trouble. If you are regularly stopped and searched for no reason, then your case builds over time anyway.

The truth is there are racist black people and racist white people, there are vicious black criminals and vicious white criminals. A few BAME have chips on their shoulders rightly, some wrongly, just like a few whites have sick racist white supremacist beliefs. I heard some recent footage where officers were being chanted at “Black Lives Matter” one officer replied “All Lives Matter” the woman replied “No, Black Lives Matter” You could easily assume she was inferring only black lives mattered to her, even if she wasn’t meaning it.

The issue will never be resolved by protests like we saw at the weekend, only by education, time, trust and hard work by all representatives in communities will things get better. Everyone has a duty to play their part. The truth is this country has a way to go. I once had a black lady claiming she was the victim of racist behaviour by her white trash neighbour, hmmm.
 
Handsome said:
racist attacks on police officers
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I have read the report (but not seen the video), why is it "racist"?

An attack on a Police Officer is reprehensible and disgusting but I would have thought motivated by attacking a figure of authority rather than someone who is a "different race" to the attacker. So why is it "racist"?
 
Muttley said:
I have read the report (but not seen the video), why is it "racist"?

An attack on a Police Officer is reprehensible and disgusting but I would have thought motivated by attacking a figure of authority rather than someone who is a "different race" to the attacker. So why is it "racist"?
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How is it not racist?
 
Muttley said:
I didn't call it "racist", you did, please explain yourself.
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Why the short time? It's racist because the males from a different ethnic group targeted a police officer from another ethnic group after he helped someone, they then went on to assault a female officer from another ethnic group, I see this as racism, racism isn't exclusively just for white people you know? My black wife also said this is racist.
 
It doesn't seem necessarily racist to me. Attacking a police officer is most likely because he/she is a Police Officer not because of the colour of their skin. You didn't refer to the attack on the female officer as a "sexist" attack.
 
Without knowing the context it’s very difficult to deduce whether there is any racial element involved, however that does not excuse the behaviour of those assaulting the police officers at the scene, the police have a very difficult job to do at the best of times and incidents like this do not help either the police or the wider community.

Cool heads and calm decisions are needed at all times but especially at the moment and with authority comes responsibility and a lighter touch might be what’s required to stop further escalations into violence.
 
Exactly AM, it is not helpful to portray incidents like this as "racist" when it may not be. It can cause a mindset that perceives people of other "races" as a potential threat.

One race, human.
 
SuperStu said:
If someone had attacked those USA police officers that were kneeling on George Floyd, and got them off his neck, would that have been reprehensible, disgusting and simply wrong? :unsure:
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This thread is about the context of the UK where we police through consent though stu, so not sure why you take the comments out of context. Anyone attempting that kneeling in the UK would likely have other officers intervening first imho. As for the George Floyd issue, well I would suggest intervening in Minnesota would have been extremely dangerous and led to death by gunshot unfortunately. We should be grateful we have the policing system we have. Respect it, as most alternatives around the world are far worse imho.
 
I would argue that ALL policing is by "consent" and the Police Departments in the USA would do well to remember that. If consent is lost then the Police become a tool of government to suppress and control the population. This happened in this country during Thatcher's "reign" when the Police were used against football supporters, workers and "new age" travellers (among others), it has taken a long time for that to be turned round. I think that they just about have; but trust, and trust is a major part of consent, is quickly lost and hard to regain.
 
SuperStu said:
But the police officer already has that lad in a headlock at the start of the video. As per the video on the other thread we don't know what's came before the recording starts? Perhaps the police officer is the one to instigate this incident?
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Oh yeah, a lone male police officer and his female colleague, despite being significantly outnumbered, just decide to have a go at several men for no reason. What a load of nonsense, Stu.
 
coluka said:
This thread is about the context of the UK where we police through consent though stu, so not sure why you take the comments out of context.
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Okay then substitute the hypothetical for one of the UK examples. If someone had got between the police officer that struck/pushed Ian Tomlinson in 2009, would they have been wrong to do so?

Muttley said:
I don't know Stu, what do you think...
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Well IMO no they wouldn't have been wrong Muttley, but I'm not the one talking in absolutes...
 
This is my point from earlier - crimes against one race by a different race aren't in and of themselves racist. The key point is always motive, why is someone attacking someone else.

Now we can't be certain from the footage provided but I would hazard a guess that this policeman has been attacked because he is a policeman, not because he is white.
 
SuperStu said:
Okay then substitute the hypothetical for one of the UK examples. If someone had got between the police officer that struck/pushed Ian Tomlinson in 2009, would they have been wrong to do so?
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Firstly, It would not have been possible to do so stu If you review the footage.

Secondly, the officers actions were not foreseeable imho, why would anyone have stepped in at that real time incident? The officer was rightly charged with manslaughter. I believe he was eventually found not guilty by a Jury. The Police though rightly dismissed him for gross misconduct. There will always be bad apples in every profession. It is not the profession that is the bad apple just the human being employed. Thankfully our police force is among the best in the world. You will never obtain perfection Stu, that is why we have juries and the rule of law to deal with anyone in society that oversteps the laws of our country.
 
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