Gove - We need a new coal mine in Cumbria

I thought the Steel industry will be all electric in 2 years - whats left of it.

Another British manufacturing industry practically written off, because those at the top have no real interest and no expertise on what makes a successful manufacturing industry over time.
 
Steel is a red herring, like most manufacturing, it's designed as a vote catcher for older people who lived at a time when we were good at manufacturing, and most of the world had a lesser capability. That world doesn't exist anymore.

This applies to most manufacturing:

We can't make steel as cheap as China or many other places, as our workers cost too much for fair pay, as does the cost of mining the raw materials. It's cheaper to get it from abroad, and ship it, and that's impossible to fight.

Sure, we could tax imports more, to disincentivise it, but the costs here would still be expensive, so the manufacturing cost would go up, which means costs for anything related to it go up, which means the man on the street ends up paying a lot more for it (inflation).

Sure, there was a time when it was cheaper because it was worse quality, but the world has caught up and places like China are probably now making better gear than we ever did, or they could if people asked for it. Some places might ask for the best gear, but most general construction wouldn't, they want whatever will do the job well enough (which is already overengineered with safety margins), at the cheapest price possible.

Can't fight the world economy, and countries developing, with lower wage and material costs, and they're always going to start with raw materials, manufacturing, labour intensive roles etc, and pull the rug from others who were the top of that. This is why countries have to move with the times, like how the UK moved to finance, insurance, services and digital aspects etc. Going back to manufacturing would be a backwards step, we need to be looking at what's required in the future, which developing economies would struggle to do as quickly, with experience etc.
 
Andy - You have just wrote one of Mrs Thachers speeches from the 1980s.

I honestly don't think the UK can survive on (almost only) services alone.

OK the World moves on, but like the USA the UK can still have a decent manufacturing base based on industries such as electronics, aviation, military equipment, vehicles, transport equipment, chemicals, specialist metals, alcohol, pharmaceuticals, green energy - some steel is required to service some of these industries.

Relying on such countries as India and China for the vast majority of our manufactured goods could have dire security issues too. Often when we buy imported steel it is subsidised by an overseas Government and they didn't do it because they like us. They do it to keep a strategic industry operating.

Ref Security - can we produce Smart phones in the UK if we had to? If we were sanctioned or blockaded could we survive as we do now. The Americans have made a decision they definitely can't and they are re shoring on a big scale.
 
Steel is a red herring, like most manufacturing, it's designed as a vote catcher for older people who lived at a time when we were good at manufacturing, and most of the world had a lesser capability. That world doesn't exist anymore.

This applies to most manufacturing:

We can't make steel as cheap as China or many other places, as our workers cost too much for fair pay, as does the cost of mining the raw materials. It's cheaper to get it from abroad, and ship it, and that's impossible to fight.

Sure, we could tax imports more, to disincentivise it, but the costs here would still be expensive, so the manufacturing cost would go up, which means costs for anything related to it go up, which means the man on the street ends up paying a lot more for it (inflation).

Sure, there was a time when it was cheaper because it was worse quality, but the world has caught up and places like China are probably now making better gear than we ever did, or they could if people asked for it. Some places might ask for the best gear, but most general construction wouldn't, they want whatever will do the job well enough (which is already overengineered with safety margins), at the cheapest price possible.

Can't fight the world economy, and countries developing, with lower wage and material costs, and they're always going to start with raw materials, manufacturing, labour intensive roles etc, and pull the rug from others who were the top of that. This is why countries have to move with the times, like how the UK moved to finance, insurance, services and digital aspects etc. Going back to manufacturing would be a backwards step, we need to be looking at what's required in the future, which developing economies would struggle to do as quickly, with experience etc.
We're not even competitive with Europe in steel due to much higher energy costs. Electric arc furnaces will make the disparity greater.
 
We're not even competitive with Europe in steel due to much higher energy costs. Electric arc furnaces will make the disparity greater.
I know energy prices are a big part of the costs of steel making, much bigger than say labour costs. Isn't it crazy why energy is so much more expensive in the UK than say mainland Europe, when you think we have oil, natural gas, lots of wind. Anyone know why energy is more expensive in the UK?
 
Steel is a red herring, like most manufacturing, it's designed as a vote catcher for older people who lived at a time when we were good at manufacturing, and most of the world had a lesser capability. That world doesn't exist anymore.

This applies to most manufacturing:

We can't make steel as cheap as China or many other places, as our workers cost too much for fair pay, as does the cost of mining the raw materials. It's cheaper to get it from abroad, and ship it, and that's impossible to fight.

Sure, we could tax imports more, to disincentivise it, but the costs here would still be expensive, so the manufacturing cost would go up, which means costs for anything related to it go up, which means the man on the street ends up paying a lot more for it (inflation).

Sure, there was a time when it was cheaper because it was worse quality, but the world has caught up and places like China are probably now making better gear than we ever did, or they could if people asked for it. Some places might ask for the best gear, but most general construction wouldn't, they want whatever will do the job well enough (which is already overengineered with safety margins), at the cheapest price possible.

Can't fight the world economy, and countries developing, with lower wage and material costs, and they're always going to start with raw materials, manufacturing, labour intensive roles etc, and pull the rug from others who were the top of that. This is why countries have to move with the times, like how the UK moved to finance, insurance, services and digital aspects etc. Going back to manufacturing would be a backwards step, we need to be looking at what's required in the future, which developing economies would struggle to do as quickly, with experience etc.
A major backward step was taken in the late 70s to early 80s to turn the UK into a service economy. It's seen the nation tumble into the state it is in now. The warnings were given, the electorate didn't listen.
 
I know energy prices are a big part of the costs of steel making, much bigger than say labour costs. Isn't it crazy why energy is so much more expensive in the UK than say mainland Europe, when you think we have oil, natural gas, lots of wind. Anyone know why energy is more expensive in the UK?
40% of our cost is a "policy cost" carbon emission charges/green subsidy etc and 20% is network cost.
 
A major backward step was taken in the late 70s to early 80s to turn the UK into a service economy. It's seen the nation tumble into the state it is in now. The warnings were given, the electorate didn't listen.
Coincided with a certain Margaret Thatcher coming to power and beginning her class war.
 
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