Gibson is a big part of the problem

Funky_Chicken

Well-known member
He’s just not very good at getting the right people behind the scenes to run it properly - his record with picking managers isn’t great either
 

The Card Cheat

Well-known member
I sometimes wonder if his principles before pragmatism approach works.
If every other club is willing to poach managers from other clubs or pay admittedly exorbitant agent fees, it puts us at a distinct disadvantage if we are the only club who aren't.
 

S7DiscoDown

Well-known member
'tredding water?'

He gave Monk 50mil / Pulis 25 (who moaned about not being backed).

I'd maybe say Woody and Warnock in terms of amounts. Yet still very comparible by the large majority of champo clubs.

We've signed 12 players. I shudder to think what the loan fees and wages are on Muniz / Giles and Steffen? I doubt the majority of sides above us are paying those figures.

Anyone who thinks Wilder hasn't been 'backed' needs to look at 90% of other teams in the same division. We've blown them away.
 

BobendBert

Well-known member
I don't question his financial backing at all. I do question how wisely his investment has been spent. Bad managerial appointment after bad appointment and on field recruitment has been diabolical despite spending a small fortune.
 

indeedido

Well-known member
Southampton, Watford, Burnley, Norwich, Forest, Fulham, Leeds, Palace, Wolves all also overtaken us in the last decade too. No reason we shouldn’t be among them
True.
Burnley have £79m positive value.
Fulham £32m positive.
Norwich £21m positive value.
Southampton have debt, but positive nett book value.
Leeds and Watford are each £13m underwater, compared to our £117m.
Forest £49m underwater, Wolves £56m underwater - each under half ours.
Even Palace at £93m underwater are in a much better position given their PL status and player value above book.

Bristol City, West Brom, Swansea, Sheff Utd, Preston, Luton are all genuine going concerns with positive book value, in addition to Burnley and Norwich in the Championship.

Only Brighton and West Ham are worse than us in the PL.
West Ham don't own their stadium obviously.
Brighton owe a lot of money to their owner Tony Bloom, but he is a billionaire version of Gibson.
Both have players worth considerably more than book value.
 

indeedido

Well-known member
'tredding water?'

He gave Monk 50mil / Pulis 25 (who moaned about not being backed).

I'd maybe say Woody and Warnock in terms of amounts. Yet still very comparible by the large majority of champo clubs.

We've signed 12 players. I shudder to think what the loan fees and wages are on Muniz / Giles and Steffen? I doubt the majority of sides above us are paying those figures.

Anyone who thinks Wilder hasn't been 'backed' needs to look at 90% of other teams in the same division. We've blown them away.
The other clubs haven't generated a £22.5m profit from transfers on 2 players who had no book value either.
 

Soutra

Well-known member
Gibberish man.
He doesn't put anything like that in.
Facts in the public domain.
He paid S&N, ICI and Moskowitz the money they originally stumped up to save the club c £800k.
He has injected £63m in additional equity, so £64m in total across 29 years.
His Group has loaned the Club c£121m that is due within a year, if he choose to call it.

If he quits, the club goes into Admin, he loses a lot of money, but could start again under new owners from League One who might actually have a clue how to run a club.
They might be terrible owners, that's true. But they might not.
We are arguably on course for League One as it is.
I'm pretty sure there have been two write offs since 1986, but I can't remember the amounts. He's pumped in far more than £200 million over the years.

Not really gibberish then.
 

indeedido

Well-known member
I'm pretty sure there have been two write offs since 1986, but I can't remember the amounts. He's pumped in far more than £200 million over the years.

Not really gibberish then.
£50m in 2012, £5m in 2014 and £8m in 2016. 3 debt to equity plays.
That’s it.
So yes, gibberish.
It is all public domain.
 

The_Big_Woodowski

Active member
[/QUOTE]
IF he writes off the £121m, THEN he would have put in £185m across 29 years. £6.4m per season.
[/QUOTE]

So what we are saying is that he has only lost £6.5 m a year over a 30 year period…. Now you put it like that I can see that he is not as committed as I first though.

I think it’s remarkable when you consider he is worth about £200m on the Times rich list… and list the same amount and all he has to show for it is a poxy carling cup
 

lostinyorkshire

Well-known member
Its all about the 11 players on the pitch all the rest is noise.

Mangers bla bla. Buy/find better players and we will rise up the league.

Any decent manager would be able to organise a team if we had decent players. News flash they arnt good enough
 

allied_assault

Well-known member
Its all about the 11 players on the pitch all the rest is noise.

Mangers bla bla. Buy/find better players and we will rise up the league.

Any decent manager would be able to organise a team if we had decent players. News flash they arnt good enough
Disagree liy
We have good players - they are short of confidence
That’s all
 

indeedido

Well-known member
IF he writes off the £121m, THEN he would have put in £185m across 29 years. £6.4m per season.
[/QUOTE]

So what we are saying is that he has only lost £6.5 m a year over a 30 year period…. Now you put it like that I can see that he is not as committed as I first though.

I think it’s remarkable when you consider he is worth about £200m on the Times rich list… and list the same amount and all he has to show for it is a poxy carling cup
[/QUOTE]

No, you do get it, but don't acknowledge it.
He has actually put £64m in across 29 years.
IF he converted the £121m of Group loan into equity, THEN he would have put in £185m.
There are absolutely no signs that he is going to do that.

There is absolutely no shame in not being wealthy enough to invest.
It is his prerogative not to.
But his decision making has resulted in the debt, he won't clear it, so he can't sell and we are studck with each other.

Lerner at Villa and Short at Sunderland had a go, messed up but got out leaving the club to go again.
I wish Gibson would do the same.
 

The_Big_Woodowski

Active member
[/QUOTE]

No, you do get it, but don't acknowledge it.
He has actually put £64m in across 29 years.
IF he converted the £121m of Group loan into equity, THEN he would have put in £185m.
There are absolutely no signs that he is going to do that.

There is absolutely no shame in not being wealthy enough to invest.
It is his prerogative not to.
But his decision making has resulted in the debt, he won't clear it, so he can't sell and we are studck with each other.

Lerner at Villa and Short at Sunderland had a go, messed up but got out leaving the club to go again.
I wish Gibson would do the same.
[/QUOTE]

So the £120m his is in for don’t count, that money has come from him or the Gibson O’Neill holdings. If we go bang tonight he loses that.

I believe it to be an interest free loan also reducing his ability to gain interest or invest in other avenues that would increase his wealth.

There are also no signs saying he is going to recall it anytime soon. I do believe if he needed to for FFP or any other reason to benefit the club he would.

My point regarding his wealth is he has potential put 50% of his wealth in to the club for the love of it. Won’t be many about who have committed so much in terms of percentages in to a loss making venture (the club).

Mistakes or no mistakes. He can’t compete with oil states or multi billionaire, but due to we don’t have a long list of these trying to prize it away from him.

He may not be perfect or everyone’s cup of tea, but he does have the clubs best interests at heart. For every Gibson there are a hell of a lot more chancers destroying clubs all over the world.
 
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