Flares at the football

N

northernrower

Well-known member
No, I'm not talking about a questionable trouser choice but instead pyrotechnics in the stands. Isn't it illegal to set one off at a match? It seems to me the worst perpetrators right now are Liverpool and Everton who for some reason have just gone overboard with the chuffing things.

Are they now just accepted or do authorites actually identify and punish those carrying them?
 
They're pretty dangerous and again it needs eliminating somehow.

Apart from the danger it would annoy me if we'd won the FA cup and i couldn't see anything because of the flares blocking the view. You could see at Wembley on saturday there was very hazy footage from some of the cameras.
 
wilkos_perm said:
They're pretty dangerous and again it needs eliminating somehow.

Apart from the danger it would annoy me if we'd won the FA cup and i couldn't see anything because of the flares blocking the view. You could see at Wembley on saturday there was very hazy footage from some of the cameras.
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That would annoy me too.

On health grounds I would be infuriated if somebody let a flare off next to my daughters. I think I'd be even more wound up at the club if they didn't act.
 
Flares and smokes are two different things. They're both banned, both dangerous in their own way but flares are definitely the far greater risk, especially in close quarters.

Security/stewards/police whoever, i definitely feel turn a blind eye now - well, you never hear of banning orders or arrests do you?

The fact we see team buses arriving on sky sports news, with fans greeting them with smokes and sometimes flares (liverpool and everton more recently as mentioned above) is romanticising them.

The atmospheres during European games at Real Madrid, Anfield, Ibrox show you don't need them, but some people just cant help themselves.
 
VestasBoro said:
Flares and smokes are two different things. They're both banned, both dangerous in their own way but flares are definitely the far greater risk, especially in close quarters.

Security/stewards/police whoever, i definitely feel turn a blind eye now - well, you never hear of banning orders or arrests do you?

The fact we see team buses arriving on sky sports news, with fans greeting them with smokes and sometimes flares (liverpool and everton more recently as mentioned above) is romanticising them.

The atmospheres during European games at Real Madrid, Anfield, Ibrox show you don't need them, but some people just cant help themselves.
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Middlesbrough FC made a very strong statement this week -

"Fans are also advised that the use of pyrotechnic devices inside a football stadium is a criminal offence that will potentially lead to police action, prosecution, and a ban from football.

Pyrotechnics and flares can burn at up to 2,500°C and can cause significant injuries to carriers and fellow spectators. We have also seen many incidents that have resulted in people experiencing burns, breathing difficulties, distress, and discomfort.

Whilst the issue of pitch incursions and the use of pyrotechnic devices are primarily matters that fall within the remit of the Police and Football Association, the EFL continues to work closely and collaboratively with all the relevant parties to address the broader issue of anti-social behaviour. "

Fans are smuggling these in within food, drinks, all sorts. One of the reasons that we get searched up and down the country before games.
 
fmttmadmin said:
Middlesbrough FC made a very strong statement this week -

"Fans are also advised that the use of pyrotechnic devices inside a football stadium is a criminal offence that will potentially lead to police action, prosecution, and a ban from football.

Pyrotechnics and flares can burn at up to 2,500°C and can cause significant injuries to carriers and fellow spectators. We have also seen many incidents that have resulted in people experiencing burns, breathing difficulties, distress, and discomfort.

Whilst the issue of pitch incursions and the use of pyrotechnic devices are primarily matters that fall within the remit of the Police and Football Association, the EFL continues to work closely and collaboratively with all the relevant parties to address the broader issue of anti-social behaviour. "

Fans are smuggling these in within food, drinks, all sorts. One of the reasons that we get searched up and down the country before games.
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Banning orders/arrests - I know that offenders are identified after games and action is taken against them.
 
It was brought up on talksh*te last week. They were moaning about stewards not doing a job.

Various fans phoned in saying you either give it to children or a female (bra/underwear) and they simply can't search them. Also similar with drugs.

It seems to be a new 'craze'. I'm guessing brought about by seeing a sea of yellow and black flares at Dortmund etc. It's the 'norm' in European football (I'm not sure if it's legal?)
 
The term "nowadays" and "recently" and "increased trouble" and "pitch invasions" - [not "encroachment"] is being burned like a flare on the likes of Talkspit and on media platforms. Seems more than coincidental the way football and certain idiots are being lumped together as "thugs" and "hooligans" - which suits a certain agenda.

The "answer(s)" include "stamping down" and using dogs / fences / horses / tasers, etc.
Its noticeable how the unnecessary use of pepper spray and kettling against innocent women and children at Stoke by the coppers, has disappeared from the media. Why is it permissible to pepper spray ordinary people - who have commited no offence other than to attend an organised event - with not a squeek out of "the media"?

There are others on here who have been abroad and witnessed the violence by the state at football matches: it doesnt stop encroachment - so there has to be other "solutions"?

Self-policing for instance?
 
fmttmadmin said:
anning orders/arrests - I know that offenders are identified after games and action is taken against them.
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I know personally of lads who have used them at games in Scotland and England and had no action taken so, guessing its a toin coss if they pursue it then - even when the lads have them holding flares on terraces as their social media profile pictures!
 

Denmark: First tifo using 'cold' pyrotechnics​

10.12.2019 03:07 source: StadiumDB.com; author: michał

Usually when flares set the south stand alight in Brøndby, it means fines for the club. But not this time, despite supporters having lit hundreds of flares. Why? These were the safe, legal pyrotechnics created here in Brøndby.
The Sunday game between Brøndby and Midtjylland will not go in history as the best by local team. But it was historic for a different reason: a few hundred flares were lit a Sydsiden (south side), marking the first official tifo created with innovative and fully legal pyrotechnics that Brøndby and its fans have been working on for the last few years.

While there's still some work to be done in terms of the visual effect, everyone seems to be happy with the outcome so far. Hundreds of flares in Brøndby's yellow and blue were lit fully legally. Though fans didn't need approval from anyone (due to low temperature of burning these are legal), they approached all emergency services beforehand and got the green light for their display.

With burning temperature over 1,000 degrees lower than with regular flares, these are safe to run one's hand through without risk of injury. The emission of sparks and smoke was also minimised compared to regular pyrotechnics. The price? Amount of light is also far smaller than with regular, banned flares.

Clearly, these aren't the same as what ultras around the world enjoy but the cold flares from Brøndby have their benefits. For example, fans were able to create a quite precise message (the club's establishment date, 1964) with their flares, which would hardly be possible with conventional flares.

 

‘COLD SMOKE FLARES’ COULD BE THE ANSWER TO FANS' PYRO PRAYERS​



Words: Ryan Dobney
Images: Offside Sports Photography

The issue of pyro has been a long-standing one in football.​

Just recently, Paris Saint-Germain, Saint-Étienne, and Olympique de Marseille have all being sanctioned by French officials for using flares, with the latter being fined 1.3 million Euros last season alone because of fireworks. While it makes for a cracking atmosphere when its supporters are so keen, that’s not exactly a sustainable model for clubs.
Arsenal striker Alexandre Lacazette has said he misses the atmosphere of Ligue 1 stadiums and told of how fans in England can be more “spectators than supporters”. And while some may argue that this might be a resolutely Premier League (or Arsenal) issue, the issue of fan atmosphere is a tricky one that science bods have been looking to solve.
In France, the question of pyrotechnics in football became such a heated debate (wait for it) that it was taken to the government, as a new alternative for the flares has come to light (almost), in the form of 'smoke without heat’ (there we go).

https://twitter.com/x/status/971136725337759744

Emitting little to no heat, 'cold smoke flares' visibly imitate the bright colours of the banned flares but do not give off the high temperatures that are a risk to safety. Developed in Denmark after several clubs in Scandinavia including Brøndby IF suffered similar, pyro-related punishments, they introduce an interesting opportunity for the FA to have its cake and eat it too, with the chance to experience the kind of displays we all fawn over in other national leagues, only this time you can get the bus home after.
French football expert Loïc Tanzi said: “In French culture, they love to use flares because it’s beautiful for them to see fireworks, it's been the case that in the last 20 years.
“There is a problem every weekend, and every week there is some debate because the fans want to use it and they continue to use it in the stadium, and the clubs continue to get fines.”
The beauty of the flares is liked so much that Marseille's Director of Security, Thierry Aldebert, has even said the French side would look to “unlock funds” to develop further research into the cold smoke project.
Following a letter from French politician Stéphane Testé to Sports Minister Roxana Mărăcineanu, it has been confirmed that a “dialogue has been opened” within the government, for the use of 'cold smoke' or 'smoke without heat' to replace flares within French football stadiums.
OFS_ManUtd_Eti_160217_031_large.jpg

“Cold pyros could represent a solution for all parties concerned in that they represent no potential danger. Starting a dialogue around flares could open the door to trial use,” Testé said in a statement. “I think some supporters would welcome this even if certain ultras might find it difficult to accept.
“I believe France has sensible supporters and could, therefore, lead the way in developing a model that could be copied elsewhere.”
For many, it does seem to be a feeling that football authorities are not listening to fans when the topic of pryo is brought up. This was seen in Germany, when third-tier side Karlsruher SC had agreed with the emergency services and officials they would commemorate and say goodbye to their stadium by staging a pyrotechnic tribute at the Wildparkstadion and the German Football Association got asrey when they found out; launching an investigation into the club, regarding the ignition of pyro during the farewell.

Danke, Wildparkstadion! 1955 - 2018

“It's dangerous [when] governments say they do not want to find another solution,” says Tanzi.
However, the solution of cold smoke flares brought forward to the French government is still in its infancy. But, for many, the opening of a dialogue at government level is at least a start, showing a progression in the understanding of the game and fan culture that previously seemed non-existent.
There would need to be a discussion between clubs and relevant individuals, such as the league and local security services in order to outline the usage of the new technology, but it’s good to know the options are out there.
And if and when it is solved in France, it might just be that the option is extended across the Channel, too.
 
Personally i think they look great in the stands and certainly add to the atmosphere. Understand the issue with safety concerns mind.
 
How? They could be used in designated areas like the red faction area. The club allows them certain privileges such as standing throughout the game, a drum etc. I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility that they could do the same here as long as they are responsible.
 
Humpty said:
How? They could be used in designated areas like the red faction area. The club allows them certain privileges such as standing throughout the game, a drum etc. I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility that they could do the same here as long as they are responsible.
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But they don't stay in those areas, the smoke drifts and affects all parts of the ground. It creates an intimidating atmosphere.

IMO the whole thing runs counter to making football something everyone can attend.

It would make me far less likely to take my little boy when he's a bit older (currently only 3).
 
Football fans are very sheep like. They see one thing go viral and they have to copy it. Whether that is pitch invasions, flares, standing, drugs or things like the awful pints in the air when England score nonsense. Anything that can be done without affecting others I will support as a bit of fun but when it affects other people that don't have the choice but to be involved then it is just selfish.

I agree with others that I don't want a return to draconian policing of football fans and some of them I like that they improve the atmosphere but something needs to be done to reduce the things that are ruining the experience for others. It's easier to do for home matches because if you want to avoid standing, flares, the drum etc then you sit in a different stand but away it is just luck of the draw as to which seat you are allocated.
 
Haven't seen many flares, a couple at Wembley when Liverpool won and outside for their bus greets.

Seen alot of smokes lately though.
 
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