Face masks

RandySavage said:
Which everyone knew as that's what we were told would happen.
Yet deaths are going down by the way.
So what does that tell us about the virus?
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Answer me this:

Do people get the virus and immediately drop dead? Or do they get the virus, get sick and then die?

If you can work out the answer to that, you might be able to work out why the infection rate rising isn't correlated to the death rate rising at the same time.
 
Ingleby_Flash said:
no I haven’t changed my argument, these are the same, though updated, figures I posted yesterday, they show how drastically the death rate is falling, the infection rate is the same, without the use of masks. My point is still that all of the unmasked protests etc didn’t cause an increase in infection rates, far from it they fell.

Now I know your argument involves comparing this with totally different cultures and environments to try to prove your point.

you wear one if you want but the only argument for making them compulsory is so that the government can calm paranoid people down so that they come back out and get the economy working. A placebo.
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The infection rate IS RISING. To use your own words, you should educate yourself. Also, like young Randy, maybe you should have a little think about why a death rate might lag behind an infection rate.

The argument for making them compulsory is actually people like yourself, seemingly not understanding or not caring about the need to wear them. You do realise you are arguing against something that will stop a deadly disease spreading? To argue AGAINST wanting to do that is either staggeringly selfish, or staggeringly ignorant.
 
You are in a frenzy my friend, at no point have I argued against wearing them, I’m flying on Thursday and will be wearing one. Myself, fellow diners and waiting staff didn’t wear them in a restaurant today, even you suspect we’ll all be ok, if you tell the truth.

i argue against the compulsory wearing of them, the government’s motives for making this the case and people like you presenting your own opinion as incontrovertible evidence. It doesn’t make you a bad person the BBC and government ministers do the same, but I don’t accept it. I presented official published statistics to support my point, why don’t you do the same?
 
br14 said:
They wear masks in China too but it didn't seem to make that much difference. Perhaps there would have been far more deaths.

The following is from a study published in June.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7323223/

"Thus, a pre‐symptomatic or mildly infected person wearing a facemask for hours without changing it and without washing hands every time they touched the mask could paradoxically increase the risk of infecting others. Because the USA is in a desperate situation, their Centers for Disease Control has recommended the public wear homemade cloth masks. This was essentially done in an effort to try and reduce community transmission, especially from people who may not perceive themselves to be symptomatic, rather than to protect the wearer, although the evidence for this is scant. In contrast, the World Health Organization currently recommends against the public routinely wearing facemasks"

Masks may make some difference (according to the study there's limited evidence), but it isn't just about wearing masks. Countries with less deaths typically stopped travel early enough to make a difference. Taiwan was one of the first to shut down international travel. They do have a mandatory mask policy on public transport but the quarantine rules on international travel and the rapid test and trace are more likely reasons for the low spread.

I should add that I wear a mask in public buildings and have no objection to doing so. But make it mandatory and you invite disobedience from the fiercely independent. 25 years trying to get people to do stuff tells me that voluntary observance is more effective. Especially if you can get enough compliance from the generally willing to make it the norm. And provided you have a supply of masks.
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Convenient dig there at China!

Heres an informed opinion on Covid Prevention and International co-operation:

By Rana Mitter - Director of the University China Centre, professor of the History and Politics of Modern China, University of Oxford.

https://global.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202007/13/WS5f0b9cc7a310834817258d9b.html
 
SmallTown said:
Answer me this:

Do people get the virus and immediately drop dead? Or do they get the virus, get sick and then die?

If you can work out the answer to that, you might be able to work out why the infection rate rising isn't correlated to the death rate rising at the same time.
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I know it's always upset you that we didn't have bodies strewn in the streets.
I posted a graph the other day which had pinpointed various reopenings and events and still no second wave of deaths.

I know this government (which you voted for not me by the way because I knew how a tory government is cack at everything) has handled this badly. It seems your ultimate agenda over these past few weeks is to have everybody locked away in their houses wearing masks and not having contact with anybody else and god forbid anybody goes to the pub or a restaurant whilst you drop a few thousand quid on a brand new car and clap for an institution that is paid millions per year to look after us because as long as you are ok, **** anybody else living their lives how they want to.

Figured you out weeks ago with your disagreement on how Sweden have handled the illness going round.
 
RandySavage said:
I know it's always upset you that we didn't have bodies strewn in the streets.
I posted a graph the other day which had pinpointed various reopenings and events and still no second wave of deaths.

I know this government (which you voted for not me by the way because I knew how a tory government is cack at everything) has handled this badly. It seems your ultimate agenda over these past few weeks is to have everybody locked away in their houses wearing masks and not having contact with anybody else and god forbid anybody goes to the pub or a restaurant whilst you drop a few thousand quid on a brand new car and clap for an institution that is paid millions per year to look after us because as long as you are ok, **** anybody else living their lives how they want to.

Figured you out weeks ago with your disagreement on how Sweden have handled the illness going round.
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That’s not my ultimate agenda no, something else you have misunderstood
 
Ingleby_Flash said:
You are in a frenzy my friend, at no point have I argued against wearing them, I’m flying on Thursday and will be wearing one. Myself, fellow diners and waiting staff didn’t wear them in a restaurant today, even you suspect we’ll all be ok, if you tell the truth.

i argue against the compulsory wearing of them, the government’s motives for making this the case and people like you presenting your own opinion as incontrovertible evidence. It doesn’t make you a bad person the BBC and government ministers do the same, but I don’t accept it. I presented official published statistics to support my point, why don’t you do the same?
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You wear a mask yourself, so you acknowledge the need for one, yet you are happy that others don’t. Even though that could spread the disease to you or your loved ones? It’s a bizarre way of thinking to me but that’s fine. Being happy to get the disease
 
If you were prepared to listen to reasoned discussion you would be worthy of the effort. You are clearly aren’t, I‘m sorry you are so wound up to the point of seeing only what you want and either twist everything else to suit that or dismiss it. Screaming at the internet doesn’t make you right. It comes across as juvenile I hope for your sake it isn’t anything worse.

the mental health fallout from all of this will be huge and is a great concern to me.
 
SmallTown said:
That’s not my ultimate agenda no, something else you have misunderstood
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Yes it is.
You want rid of a virus completely even though a multitude of experts, doctors, scientists and the WHO have all said it is here for the long term. It isn't going anywhere. People will die of it much like people still die of AIDS (still no cure or vaccine and yes you can be HIV positive without any symptoms) but life goes on with no vaccine for it.
 
I have just looked at the latest opinions from a couple of sources. It does seem to be that the scientific evidence is starting to suggest quite strongly that wearing a mask will reduce transmission of the disease. Even some of the scientists who were against the idea are starting to change their opinions.

I would like to see an infrastructure to handle disposal though, perhaps a bio bin outside supermarkets.
 
RandySavage said:
Yes it is.
You want rid of a virus completely even though a multitude of experts, doctors, scientists and the WHO have all said it is here for the long term. It isn't going anywhere. People will die of it much like people still die of AIDS (still no cure or vaccine and yes you can be HIV positive without any symptoms) but life goes on with no vaccine for it.
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No I don’t . You’re not great at working out what I’m saying !
 
Ingleby_Flash said:
If you were prepared to listen to reasoned discussion you would be worthy of the effort. You are clearly aren’t, I‘m sorry you are so wound up to the point of seeing only what you want and either twist everything else to suit that or dismiss it. Screaming at the internet doesn’t make you right. It comes across as juvenile I hope for your sake it isn’t anything worse.

the mental health fallout from all of this will be huge and is a great concern to me.
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I’m not wound up at all. You are misreading my tone. I’ve explained why, and people like yourself have proven the necessity, we should have mandatory face masks
 
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