Everton and FFP

Cuthbert

Well-known member
I was just reading that Everton have £372M losses over the past three years. I guess there's a few things I don't get.

Where have all those losses come from; (Surely not just mainly transfers & wages)?

How are they staying within FFP?

Does FFP actually do anything, and does it even apply to the Premier League?

What is the likely situation moving forwards? (Certainly seems like if they'd gone down it could have been a bit sticky).

I'm genuinely puzzled, so any insight/explanation would be welcome....
 
The losses are from paying huge transfer fees for poor players alongisde an astronomical wage bill. £600milion in transfer fees since moshiri came in and a £100million wage bill. A fair few manager pay offs as well.
 
I was just reading that Everton have £372M losses over the past three years. I guess there's a few things I don't get.

Where have all those losses come from; (Surely not just mainly transfers & wages)?

How are they staying within FFP?

Does FFP actually do anything, and does it even apply to the Premier League?

What is the likely situation moving forwards? (Certainly seems like if they'd gone down it could have been a bit sticky).

I'm genuinely puzzled, so any insight/explanation would be welcome....
you're confusing accountling losses, with whatever FFP is now known as.
 
The losses are from paying huge transfer fees for poor players alongisde an astronomical wage bill. £600milion in transfer fees since moshiri came in and a £100million wage bill. A fair few manager pay offs as well.
So are they within FFP? If not, what are the possible penalties? What happens next season or beyond?

All just questions I'm curious about...
 
you're confusing accountling losses, with whatever FFP is now known as.
Quite possibly! (I guess that's why I'm asking the questions to try to understand)!! :D

Why are accounting losses OK? :unsure: - Aren't they just losses, made 'official' by accountants putting their stamp on it!? :ROFLMAO:
 
So are they within FFP? If not, what are the possible penalties? What happens next season or beyond?

All just questions I'm curious about...
depends on the detail, spending 200m on players and sticking them on 5 year contracts, counts as 40m a year for FFP

selling someone valued (on the books) at 1m, for 10m, is a 9m profit for FFP

don't forget to remove all the additional costs that do not apply under FFP

plus the adjustments allowed for Covid and the owners contribution
 
I think they are supposedly within FFP because they have increased the allowance for covid. They would be outside of FFP with those numbers and no covid. They were still outside with the allowance so they appealed the amount they were allowed to attribute to covid. I think the PL, instead of enforcing their rules, have caved but I'm not sure. If the trend continues then they will be in breach next year anyway.
 
depends on the detail, spending 200m on players and sticking them on 5 year contracts, counts as 40m a year for FFP

selling someone valued (on the books) at 1m, for 10m, is a 9m profit for FFP

don't forget to remove all the additional costs that do not apply under FFP

plus the adjustments allowed for Covid and the owners contribution
I see. Yes, that's all helpful.

I guess I need to read up about what's "allowed" under FFP - Unless someone can offer a five line potted summary!
 
this is an example of Boro's from another forum
20220519_220634.jpg.daa07c590f85a4226c1aae311ee9e17f.jpg
 
Everton claimed a £170m drop in revenue because of Covid, and that kept them under FFP. Newcastle only claimed £40m, Villa only claimed £56m.

Make of that what you will.

Everton's true sustainability is even worse than stated figures when you consider some of the dodgy deals that have been allowed to help prop them up even further, such as the absurd sponsorship of Finch Farm (unless you believe it makes perfect sense for a Russian holding company to spend tens of millions sponsoring some fields out the back of Halewood).
 
Everton claimed a £170m drop in revenue because of Covid, and that kept them under FFP. Newcastle only claimed £40m, Villa only claimed £56m.

Make of that what you will.

Everton's true sustainability is even worse than stated figures when you consider some of the dodgy deals that have been allowed to help prop them up even further, such as the absurd sponsorship of Finch Farm (unless you believe it makes perfect sense for a Russian holding company to spend tens of millions sponsoring some fields out the back of Halewood).
Hopefully there's some repercussions, but somehow I doubt it.
 
Your/Swiss Ramble table is really helpful for us all to frame things.
Obviously it is not completed or accurate in some of the lines for MFC.

Infrastructure is Depreciation of Fixed Assets and figures are accurate.
Amortisation can not relate to players and could be misleading to people. Player amortisation is not a FFP allowable deduction.
MFC do not have a Women's football team linked to the club.
There have been significant revaluation of fixed assets over the past three or four years which are not included above and are exclusions/add back ins for MFC. As unrealised revaluations, they are added in Reserves on Balance Sheet
The Fair Value adjustments section really relates to clubs like Watford who move players around common ownership, or clubs who ground share with other sporting clubs.
The EFL has agreed a code of allowable Covid deductions. Up to £5m for 19-20 and 20-2021 seasons and £2.5m for 21-2022 season. (The PL have obviously done something distinctly different for Everton to claim what they have).
Significantly the P&S Allowable Loss figures are accurate for the Championship, but only if the owner injects £8m per year in new equity, or loans £8m per year that will eventually convert to equity.

Everton is another remarkable FFP mystery. In fairness in the PL, the allowable losses are much bigger £35m per season and the offsetting equity injections allowable by owner much bigger than in the Championship.
However:

Their pre tax losses for the 3 years to June 2021 was £373m
on a turnover of £567m.
Their Staff Costs alone were £507m or 89% of turnover.
Their Amortisation of Players was £276m, so another 49% of turnover. Players cost them £783m in 3 years, or 138% of turnover.
To get within the £105m allowable loss to be FFP compliant, we are expected to believe that the combined Academy, Community, Womens, Covid claims, Finance Fees on New stadium/Training grounds, and Revaluation of Fixed Assets are £373m - £105m. i.e. £268m.

There were zero revaluations of Fixed Assets reflected in their accounts. There was £27m spent on the new stadium across the 3 years, but none capitalised and the Finance is not documented.
Even if their Academy cost £6m per season and they spent £3m per season on Women and £2m per season on Community (estimated by a prominent fan poster) that is £33m, so £235m short of the limit.

So to the jiggery pokery.
1. Like Stoke, Everton made pay offs to sacked staff and impairments to contracts totalling another £62m. If we wrongly (as it contravenes amortisation guidelines in football) include that figure then they are still £173m short.
2. Their owner did inject £149m in loan classed as equity in 2019, which is way above the FFP allowable limit. Even with all of this they are still £24m short of the max permissable loss over 3 years.

Their incredible defence seems to be that the 6 PL clubs that threatened to break away to form the European Super League means that no other club should be scrutinised.
They have also claimed incredible amounts for Covid disruption. Tens of millions per season. Bare in mind Everton's turnover has held up flat through Covid due to Broadcasting revenues and their Gate receipts/Ticket Sales were only £14m in 2019, half of West Ham and just over Leeds who were in the Championship.

It is absolutely rancid. FFP simply does not apply within the Premier League.
Aston Villa are similarly smelly.
I passionately hoped Everton went down and had to deal with the filth they have surrounded themselves in.
 
Your/Swiss Ramble table is really helpful for us all to frame things.
Obviously it is not completed or accurate in some of the lines for MFC.

Infrastructure is Depreciation of Fixed Assets and figures are accurate.
Amortisation can not relate to players and could be misleading to people. Player amortisation is not a FFP allowable deduction.
MFC do not have a Women's football team linked to the club.
There have been significant revaluation of fixed assets over the past three or four years which are not included above and are exclusions/add back ins for MFC. As unrealised revaluations, they are added in Reserves on Balance Sheet
The Fair Value adjustments section really relates to clubs like Watford who move players around common ownership, or clubs who ground share with other sporting clubs.
The EFL has agreed a code of allowable Covid deductions. Up to £5m for 19-20 and 20-2021 seasons and £2.5m for 21-2022 season. (The PL have obviously done something distinctly different for Everton to claim what they have).
Significantly the P&S Allowable Loss figures are accurate for the Championship, but only if the owner injects £8m per year in new equity, or loans £8m per year that will eventually convert to equity.

Everton is another remarkable FFP mystery. In fairness in the PL, the allowable losses are much bigger £35m per season and the offsetting equity injections allowable by owner much bigger than in the Championship.
However:

Their pre tax losses for the 3 years to June 2021 was £373m
on a turnover of £567m.
Their Staff Costs alone were £507m or 89% of turnover.
Their Amortisation of Players was £276m, so another 49% of turnover. Players cost them £783m in 3 years, or 138% of turnover.
To get within the £105m allowable loss to be FFP compliant, we are expected to believe that the combined Academy, Community, Womens, Covid claims, Finance Fees on New stadium/Training grounds, and Revaluation of Fixed Assets are £373m - £105m. i.e. £268m.

There were zero revaluations of Fixed Assets reflected in their accounts. There was £27m spent on the new stadium across the 3 years, but none capitalised and the Finance is not documented.
Even if their Academy cost £6m per season and they spent £3m per season on Women and £2m per season on Community (estimated by a prominent fan poster) that is £33m, so £235m short of the limit.

So to the jiggery pokery.
1. Like Stoke, Everton made pay offs to sacked staff and impairments to contracts totalling another £62m. If we wrongly (as it contravenes amortisation guidelines in football) include that figure then they are still £173m short.
2. Their owner did inject £149m in loan classed as equity in 2019, which is way above the FFP allowable limit. Even with all of this they are still £24m short of the max permissable loss over 3 years.

Their incredible defence seems to be that the 6 PL clubs that threatened to break away to form the European Super League means that no other club should be scrutinised.
They have also claimed incredible amounts for Covid disruption. Tens of millions per season. Bare in mind Everton's turnover has held up flat through Covid due to Broadcasting revenues and their Gate receipts/Ticket Sales were only £14m in 2019, half of West Ham and just over Leeds who were in the Championship.

It is absolutely rancid. FFP simply does not apply within the Premier League.
Aston Villa are similarly smelly.
I passionately hoped Everton went down and had to deal with the filth they have surrounded themselves in.
Very interesting read thank you
 
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