EU slaps vaccine export ban rules on UK

Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret said:
Look I don't want to get in the middle of a brexit argument here because I'm strictly a pox on both your houses.
But it just seems your argument is this success is proof of our failure. It may well end up being outside the EU is hugely detrimental to us, but this isn't evidence of that, unless they do ultimately end up restricting our imports and obtaining vaccines from the UK plants.
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That isn't my argument at all. As I'm speaking to a broader context than the vaccine debacle.

The success is incidental - the UK is, outside or inside the EU, is always likely to succeed at a great many things. The point is that the EU will always do what is best for the EU and this may or may not align with the UK's interests. However, the UK - as it is in the EU's sphere of influence, - will always be hostage to EU decisions, whether in or out of the club.
 
You say that the EU will always do what’s best for the EU but in this situation they haven’t.
They have been slow, cumbersome and flawed in making decisions.
The fact is that the EU didn’t order vaccines in some cases for months after the UK.
They also during that time period refused to allow their own members to order Vaccines independently until they had concluded negotiations.
They have failed every country in the EU and the UK government (Not the NHS as people on here are trying to credit) have played a blinder for not joining the joint vaccine programme and procuring vaccines independently. (Can somebody please bring up the thread created when they ruled out joining the programme, the abuse they got was unbelievable from the pro EU brigade and pro EU politicians)
 
Hicktonpen10 said:
Why on earth are people still rehearsing the old Brexit argument. Its gone and ain't coming back.
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Because you're using one thing which has been good (vaccine rollout), which has largely only come about because of something a lot worse (mass death, mostly caused by the same guys in government, pushing for brexit). Then, from that one good thing, you won't even acknowledge that the vaccine has largely come about due to UK-EU relations, EU funding, EU made vaccines (Pfizer), and EU supplies. You're in denial if you think our vaccine success is purely down to the UK's personnel, supplies, experience, manufacturing, funding.

You do realise we've not left, and cannot leave Europe don't you, and that if we completely cut off our nearest trade partners that ultimately this will end up worse for us (as often does for the small man). The world is becoming more and more integrated, whether you like it or not, just because we leave the EU does not mean we have any more control of our destiny (other than down), and certainly less control/ influence over the EU.

If you think we're "free" of the EU you've got another thing coming, or at least the younger generations have anyway, they're the ones who will be living with it. The EU is 10x our size and on our doorstep, it's a no contest.
 
Since1973 said:
You say that the EU will always do what’s best for the EU but in this situation they haven’t.
They have been slow, cumbersome and flawed in making decisions.
The fact is that the EU didn’t order vaccines in some cases for months after the UK.
They also during that time period refused to allow their own members to order Vaccines independently until they had concluded negotiations.
They have failed every country in the EU and the UK government (Not the NHS as people on here are trying to credit) have played a blinder for not joining the joint vaccine programme and procuring vaccines independently. (Can somebody please bring up the thread created when they ruled out joining the programme, the abuse they got was unbelievable from the pro EU brigade and pro EU politicians)
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Spot on. The Government have got the vaccine issue sorted thanks to the very impressive Vaccine Task Force. We politely declined the EU offer last year and said it had no obvious benefits to us. How right they were.
 
Andy_W said:
Because you're using one thing which has been good (vaccine rollout), which has largely only come about because of something a lot worse (mass death, mostly caused by the same guys in government, pushing for brexit). Then, from that one good thing, you won't even acknowledge that the vaccine has largely come about due to UK-EU relations, EU funding, EU made vaccines (Pfizer), and EU supplies. You're in denial if you think our vaccine success is purely down to the UK's personnel, supplies, experience, manufacturing, funding.

You do realise we've not left, and cannot leave Europe don't you, and that if we completely cut off our nearest trade partners that ultimately this will end up worse for us (as often does for the small man). The world is becoming more and more integrated, whether you like it or not, just because we leave the EU does not mean we have any more control of our destiny (other than down), and certainly less control/ influence over the EU.

If you think we're "free" of the EU you've got another thing coming, or at least the younger generations have anyway, they're the ones who will be living with it. The EU is 10x our size and on our doorstep, it's a no contest.
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" you do realise we have not left". can you just run that past me again please
 
Londons_Moggie said:
If you had asked the country 10 years ago you would have got the same vote. I know it makes it easier for you to pretend we all have posters of Farage on our walls and purely voted for Brexit based on racism and some slogan on a bus. You do that to hide yourself from the real reasons (of which there are many). It's just easier for you to believe that guff instead of facing up to the multitude of reasons. No none voted to leave because of some daft bus slogan. People had made their minds up years before that even happened.

The very same people that have spent 4 years trying to convince everyone that Brexit was a terrible decision that should be reversed are the very same people that were telling us all, that if we don't join the EU vaccine programme it would be a disaster. They've been lying to you for years and you just don't want to see it, as you're too far down the road now.
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We might have got that 10 years ago, who knows?
But I don't think you're all like that, not at all, most of the people I know that voted for brexit earn over 100k, they couldn't give a toss about Farage, they're not racist and not likely to vote based on slogans as they're clever, rich or both, so they vote based on their heads or their pockets (usually both). But they're clever/ rich enough that they're not going to struggle, no matter what. My point isn't about them, it's about the 10% of voters that probably are racist or xenophobic, these clowns (which are often at the low end of the IQ pool) were enough to sway the vote, and they exist whether you like it or not. Don't cry about being on the same side as them. Same as the 20% that voted for the hard brexit on WTO (which they didn't even know what it was before Brexit), they wanted that at any economic cost, it's crazy.

I don't think there were many people asking for a reverse, I wasn't and none of my circle of friends were, most wanted a vote on the terms of the deal, which is understandable, seeing as this wasn't outlined during the brexit campaign. A load of brexiters thought we would have stayed in the SM and CU for starters.

Who said join the EU vaccine program? Why would we join that if we're not in the EU?
The EU vaccine program is there to stop a vaccine war, within the EU, and vaccine poverty, both of which it will achieve, none of that is "bad". They took a little longer to approve it than us, but it's only a month, and they're not as desperate as we are, as proven by the death race we're "winning".
 
Hicktonpen10 said:
" you do realise we have not left". can you just run that past me again please
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Classic brexiter.....cut off the context to try and claim your point is valid, cheers easy (y)

Another one for the "brexit bingo" :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

I said "You do realise we've not left, and cannot leave Europe don't you"
 
Since1973 said:
You say that the EU will always do what’s best for the EU but in this situation they haven’t.
They have been slow, cumbersome and flawed in making decisions.
The fact is that the EU didn’t order vaccines in some cases for months after the UK.
They also during that time period refused to allow their own members to order Vaccines independently until they had concluded negotiations.
They have failed every country in the EU and the UK government (Not the NHS as people on here are trying to credit) have played a blinder for not joining the joint vaccine programme and procuring vaccines independently. (Can somebody please bring up the thread created when they ruled out joining the programme, the abuse they got was unbelievable from the pro EU brigade and pro EU politicians)
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You're wilfully misinterpreting what I'm saying. For clarity's sake: The EU will always act with the EU's interests foremost, nobody else's.

And yes, vaccine procurement has been v good. But the NHS have rolled it out and administered it.

Funny how the one bit that the Tories couldn't flog off to their mates has worked out best, eh?
 
I am lost on this thread now. Is it about our crap government, the EU screwing up vaccine procurement or brexit?
 
It being used by all (me included) to justify a decision we made four and a half years ago.

The main takeaway is that I am, as usual, irreproachably correct and my wisdom is going unappreciated! (I joke, just in case this wasn't obvious)
 
Andy_W said:
We might have got that 10 years ago, who knows?
But I don't think you're all like that, not at all, most of the people I know that voted for brexit earn over 100k, they couldn't give a toss about Farage, they're not racist and not likely to vote based on slogans as they're clever, rich or both, so they vote based on their heads or their pockets (usually both). But they're clever/ rich enough that they're not going to struggle, no matter what. My point isn't about them, it's about the 10% of voters that probably are racist or xenophobic, these clowns (which are often at the low end of the IQ pool) were enough to sway the vote, and they exist whether you like it or not. Don't cry about being on the same side as them. Same as the 20% that voted for the hard brexit on WTO (which they didn't even know what it was before Brexit), they wanted that at any economic cost, it's crazy.

I don't think there were many people asking for a reverse, I wasn't and none of my circle of friends were, most wanted a vote on the terms of the deal, which is understandable, seeing as this wasn't outlined during the brexit campaign. A load of brexiters thought we would have stayed in the SM and CU for starters.

Who said join the EU vaccine program? Why would we join that if we're not in the EU?
The EU vaccine program is there to stop a vaccine war, within the EU, and vaccine poverty, both of which it will achieve, none of that is "bad". They took a little longer to approve it than us, but it's only a month, and they're not as desperate as we are, as proven by the death race we're "winning".
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You seem to have conveniently forgotten that EU asked us last year to be part of their vaccination procurement programme. We said thanks but no thanks we can do it better than you guys. Boy what a good decision that was despite the outcry. Enjoy your bingo.
 
The NHS didn’t procure the Vaccine though - without that there would be no vaccine to roll out!!. If we had relied on the EU to get the vaccine the NHS would be still waitibg

When Greece joined the EU was that another example of the EU acting in the other states best interests? Greece didn’t fit the criteria to join and probably still don’t now but they were still allowed in.

Hiw many bailouts later?

As a trading partner the EU is a noble idea with obvious advantages and it is right that certain conditions need to be met to trade with them.

But the rest of the EU project is deeply flawed and hopefully in the long run we will be better off out.
 
Since1973 said:
The NHS didn’t procure the Vaccine though - without that there would be no vaccine to roll out!!. If we had relied on the EU to get the vaccine the NHS would be still waitibg

When Greece joined the EU was that another example of the EU acting in the other states best interests? Greece didn’t fit the criteria to join and probably still don’t now but they were still allowed in.

Hiw many bailouts later?

As a trading partner the EU is a noble idea with obvious advantages and it is right that certain conditions need to be met to trade with them.

But the rest of the EU project is deeply flawed and hopefully in the long run we will be better off out.
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I doubt you'll see any benefit in your lifetime, if ever.
 
Since1973 said:
The NHS didn’t procure the Vaccine though - without that there would be no vaccine to roll out!!. If we had relied on the EU to get the vaccine the NHS would be still waitibg

When Greece joined the EU was that another example of the EU acting in the other states best interests? Greece didn’t fit the criteria to join and probably still don’t now but they were still allowed in.

Hiw many bailouts later?

As a trading partner the EU is a noble idea with obvious advantages and it is right that certain conditions need to be met to trade with them.

But the rest of the EU project is deeply flawed and hopefully in the long run we will be better off out.
Click to expand...

I have no idea what point you're trying to make?

What are you saying - the EU doesn't act in its own interests?

And in the Greek case I think you'll find it was the council of ministers that overruled the commission to ensure Greece entered the EEC. So it was Member States that wanted it.
 
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