bear66
Well-known member
More complex with the starting culture originating from Belgium.Understood, so why the incredulity (not from you) about the EU refusing to export any doses? I think it's more nuanced than you think.
More complex with the starting culture originating from Belgium.Understood, so why the incredulity (not from you) about the EU refusing to export any doses? I think it's more nuanced than you think.
I'm not sure what the UK deal is with Pfizer or the EU one. Haven't seen anything on it. If we had a similar deal where the manufacture of the product started when we signed the contract and the EU banned it's export that would be hugely immoral behaviour.Understood, so why the incredulity (not from you) about the EU refusing to export any doses? I think it's more nuanced than you think.
Hard to argue with law enforcement like your good self. I genuinely fear for civil unrest in Europe over the next few weeks.I'm not sure what the UK deal is with Pfizer or the EU one. Haven't seen anything on it. If we had a similar deal where the manufacture of the product started when we signed the contract and the EU banned it's export that would be hugely immoral behaviour.
We have a deal with moderna. From what I have read they are shipping to the EU but the UK will not be getting it until Spring. I assume the boot is on the other foot in this case and we put in an order later than the EU. If it was manufactured in the UK and we stopped it from being exported would that not be appalling behaviour on our part?
This just looks like a political stink being kicked up because the EU have been slower to vaccinate than the UK and the US.
Try telling some people that on here - apparently the EU are entitled to do what they want as they are a “super power” god give me strength!I'm not sure what the UK deal is with Pfizer or the EU one. Haven't seen anything on it. If we had a similar deal where the manufacture of the product started when we signed the contract and the EU banned it's export that would be hugely immoral behaviour.
We have a deal with moderna. From what I have read they are shipping to the EU but the UK will not be getting it until Spring. I assume the boot is on the other foot in this case and we put in an order later than the EU. If it was manufactured in the UK and we stopped it from being exported would that not be appalling behaviour on our part?
This just looks like a political stink being kicked up because the EU have been slower to vaccinate than the UK and the US.
When they say "up-front payment from the EU" what they are saying is money from the UK's EU contributions as the UK were the second highest contributor to the EU coffers. Also we have just paid an eye watering "divorce" bill so we (i.e.. the whole of the UK and all who sail in her) owe the EU sweet FA.There's also a counter argument by EU officials that the UK site (Which has a much higher yield) is as efficient as it is on the back of the funds received from the up-front payment from the EU. Stella Kyriakides also cites a moral obligation to supply the EU rather than ensuring high numbers are rolled out in the UK.
It is getting very messy and I don't know where this is going to lead. Are Boris Et al going to ignore this plea and continue as planned, or cut them a slice to keep the peace?
I'm not defending them. Just trying to play devil's advocate. It seems to be getting messy either way.When they say "up-front payment from the EU" what they are saying is money from the UK's EU contributions as the UK were the second highest contributor to the EU coffers. Also we have just paid an eye watering "divorce" bill so we (i.e.. the whole of the UK and all who sail in her) owe the EU sweet FA.
How on earth can the EU cite "moral obligation" whilst threatening to prevent supplies from Europe coming to the UK.
They are showing their true colours on this one.
I think a lot of people who thought that Brexit was/is a mistake are having their eyes opened by this.Still think Brexit was a huge mistake, but the EU are coming out of this situation looking awful.
Their own mistakes have led to this, and they're using threats to try and solve it.
Try telling some people that on here - apparently the EU are entitled to do what they want as they are a “super power” god give me strength!
Like three months beforeThe agreements are, but they cannot commit to a time frame. The argument with the EU is that the UK's order gets fulfilled first, because they got the order in first.
Ask yourself is that consistent with your views when the brexit deal was being negotiated, no it is not.”international relations isn’t about what’s right” your own words yet when the UK were even thinking about breaking international law you amongst others were losing it on here - as I said it’s hypocritical. I shall look forward to you weasel words explaining this one away.I see you're back after not providing any evidence for your previous smears.
Anyway - nobody has said they're entitled to do it, nor that they should, nor that their conduct is anything other than self serving. But international relations isn't about what's right and fair, it's about who's the biggest bast@rd in the playground.
Ask yourself is that consistent with your views when the brexit deal was being negotiated, no it is not.”international relations isn’t about what’s right” your own words yet when the UK were even thinking about breaking international law you amongst others were losing it on here - as I said it’s hypocritical. I shall look forward to you weasel words explaining this one away.
I think you have hit the nail on the head here. We were subject to EU rules and still approved the vaccine as any EU country could have done. I think if we had remained in the EU due to the very high infection rates we were suffering we would have taken the same course of action anyway.
There seems to be lots of issues affecting the roll out on the Continent and not just the fact it's 'THE EVIL EU'. Look at France, the public won't take it for example.
I am no fan of this Government but it would appear that they are doing a great job of rolling the vaccine out. There are questions still over how wise it is to hold the 2nd jab back for so long, especially as it looks like this will be a long lockdown, but as it stands chapeau the Government
You do wonder though if they hadn't locked down late the last two times would we be needing to rush the vaccine out and make people wait 12 weeks for their 2nd dose, but that's a separate discussion.
The EU need to sort it out though, that's for sure.
In summer, probably even back in April they knew a second wave was coming in winter, as all the experts did, and equally they probably knew they were going to be opening the shops and letting people have a Christmas, or knew people would have a Christmas regardless of what the government said. Most will know that Christmas day has had a massive impact, it's impossible for it not to have done.I don't think it has much to do with vaccine approval. It's about the manufacturing capacity being built up when the contracts were signed. That was a decision taken in the summer rather than December.