England v USA

Corcaigh_the_Cat said:
He's not, he's won the same as all of the others and has a slightly inferior win ratio to Capello.
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He's come fourth place at a World Cup and runners up at a Euros. The only manager to equal or better that record is Alf Ramsey. I'd argue as have an inferior squad (in comparison to the quality at the time) to pretty much ever other squad we've taken to a major tournament since the mid 80s.

Most people don't really appreciate how good of a job someone did till after they leave. We didn't appreciate the job McLaren did at Borontill after Southgate, we didn't appreciate the job Karanka did till after Monk. We didn't appreciate the job Robson did at England till after Taylor, we didn't appreciate the job Erikson did till after McLaren. All of those managers were criticised and (in some cases) hounded out despite achieving a level of success that managers preceding them failed to achieve. We'll have the same with Southgate, he'll move on, we'll get a manager willing to go more attacking and we'll get torn apart by the teams we're beating and drawing with now. And then we'll all realise why Southgate was playing a more cautious style.

It's amazing how 4 years ago everyone went into the tournament saying we had the worst England side in living memory, and people said the same 2 tears ago. Yet after Southgate managed to take us further in the World Cup than any managers other than Ramsey and Robson, and further in the Euros than any England manager, he's the one holding us back.
 
rbmfc1985 said:
He's come fourth place at a World Cup and runners up at a Euros. The only manager to equal or better that record is Alf Ramsey. I'd argue as have an inferior squad (in comparison to the quality at the time) to pretty much ever other squad we've taken to a major tournament since the mid 80s.

Most people don't really appreciate how good of a job someone did till after they leave. We didn't appreciate the job McLaren did at Borontill after Southgate, we didn't appreciate the job Karanka did till after Monk. We didn't appreciate the job Robson did at England till after Taylor, we didn't appreciate the job Erikson did till after McLaren. All of those managers were criticised and (in some cases) hounded out despite achieving a level of success that managers preceding them failed to achieve. We'll have the same with Southgate, he'll move on, we'll get a manager willing to go more attacking and we'll get torn apart by the teams we're beating and drawing with now. And then we'll all realise why Southgate was playing a more cautious style.

It's amazing how 4 years ago everyone went into the tournament saying we had the worst England side in living memory, and people said the same 2 tears ago. Yet after Southgate managed to take us further in the World Cup than any managers other than Ramsey and Robson, and further in the Euros than any England manager, he's the one holding us back.
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McLaren you could actually argue underperformed, certainly in terms of the league though not really the cups.. For a couple of years we had arguably the 5th best team yet even when we came 7th we finished behind Bolton and Everton despite having far superior players.
 
lostinyorkshire said:
Taking away the 1966 success Southgate is England's most successful manager ever. Even eclipsing the much loved Bobby Robson, Venables etc.

So personally I hate this ridiculous Southgate bashing at every opportunity.

Lets just see how we get on. We sre on course to qualify from the group. Job done in my eyes
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This.

Again, the entitlement from England fans is incredible. They need to stop buying into media hype.
 
Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret said:
Win ratio doesn't really matter does it. Every manager since McLaren has cruised through qualification, and friendlies ( and the nation's league) really don't have any relevance. What matters is how well you do in the tournaments. Capello took a far more balanced squad than this one and absolutely stunk the world cup out.
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Absolutely, and like most of the managers that he followed, he's fallen as soon as there's a difficult object in the way.

Same as the rest barring Ramsey, won nothing.
 
Scrug said:
This.

Again, the entitlement from England fans is incredible. They need to stop buying into media hype.
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Corcaigh_the_Cat said:
No entitlement, fact. We've won nothing under Southgate.
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It’s nothing to do with entitlement it’s cultural but not in the derogatory sense you’re implying. It’s a fact that in big important games under Southgate he’s been unwilling to make positive changes be that in personnel or tactically when the game is going against us. Most Brits have a never say die attitude, we’d much prefer a positive change in an attempt to regain the momentum and win rather than park the bus, play for a draw or hold out for penalties even if it means we lose. Southgate has had some fantastic players at his disposal that he’s been reluctant to utilise, he’d get more respect if he showed a little more bravery and tried to change things positively when we’re up against it. Let the opposition worry about our threats instead of constantly panicking about theirs.
 
Priv said:
It’s nothing to do with entitlement it’s cultural but not in the derogatory sense you’re implying. It’s a fact that in big important games under Southgate he’s been unwilling to make positive changes be that in personnel or tactically when the game is going against us. Most Brits have a never say die attitude, we’d much prefer a positive change in an attempt to regain the momentum and win rather than park the bus, play for a draw or hold out for penalties even if it means we lose. Southgate has had some fantastic players at his disposal that he’s been reluctant to utilise, he’d get more respect if he showed a little more bravery and tried to change things positively when we’re up against it. Let the opposition worry about our threats instead of constantly panicking about theirs.
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So how has that letting the opposition worry about England’s threats worked in the past? You had that ‘golden generation’ of incredible attacking talents that didn’t achieve anywhere near as much as Southgate’s side has.

Fact is English players just aren’t that good, they look better than they are when they’re surrounded by talented foreigners in the PL. Then they get found out at international level. They stand a better chance being compact and disciplined.
 
Scrug said:
So how has that letting the opposition worry about England’s threats worked in the past? You had that ‘golden generation’ of incredible attacking talents that didn’t achieve anywhere near as much as Southgate’s side has.

Fact is English players just aren’t that good, they look better than they are when they’re surrounded by talented foreigners in the PL. Then they get found out at international level. They stand a better chance being compact and disciplined.
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I love your hatred, and your you English mentality, can’t beat an anglophobic Scot.

You didn’t counter my argument did you, don’t let your hated and anger cloud your judgement and make your arguments look
Silly. Substitutes are there to be used to try and help win or close out games. As I said he’d get more respect for using them positively rather than negatively it’s what fans want. If you can’t handle that go back to chewing your thistles and worrying about your own national teams problems as for someone who claims to be Scottish you can’t stop taking about England.
 
Corcaigh_the_Cat said:
Absolutely, and like most of the managers that he followed, he's fallen as soon as there's a difficult object in the way.

Same as the rest barring Ramsey, won nothing.
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I wouldn't argue too much with that, other than depending on a person's natural inclination they will tend to run down teams we beat (like the German team we beat in the last euros but lost to under Venables and capello) so they don't have to class them as a good team.

But as you've said no one has done better than him in 50 odd years which would suggest that the next person won't do any better either, and would most likely do worse.
 
Priv said:
I love your hatred, and your you English mentality, can’t beat an anglophobic Scot.

You didn’t counter my argument did you, don’t let your hated and anger cloud your judgement and make your arguments look
Silly. Substitutes are there to be used to try and help win or close out games. As I said he’d get more respect for using them positively rather than negatively it’s what fans want. If you can’t handle that go back to chewing your thistles and worrying about your own national teams problems as for someone who claims to be Scottish you can’t stop taking about England.
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I’ve never once said I’m Scottish 😂 You’re thinking of someone else fella. But nice to see your xenophobia pop out there 👍🏻

I did counter your argument. Your argument was you need to be more adventurous with the talent at your disposal. My argument is when you HAVE taken that approach in the past, you haven’t achieved anything. Yet Southgate’s overly cautious football has given you a better chance at a trophy than anyone else (barring Sir Alf).
 
Scrug said:
I’ve never once said I’m Scottish 😂 You’re thinking of someone else fella. But nice to see your xenophobia pop out there 👍🏻

I did counter your argument. Your argument was you need to be more adventurous with the talent at your disposal. My argument is when you HAVE taken that approach in the past, you haven’t achieved anything. Yet Southgate’s overly cautious football has given you a better chance at a trophy than anyone else (barring Sir Alf).
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From the bench not for the start. You completely ignored that fact. No where did I say he should start gung-ho and play every attacking player. Neither did I say he should shoehorn everyone in like we used to with Lampard and Gerrard that hindered us for years.

Yes I’ve got you mixed up with someone
else whose Scottish but Scottish,Welsh, Irish whatever you are your comments clearly show you’re a touch anglophobic.
 
Scrug said:
So how has that letting the opposition worry about England’s threats worked in the past? You had that ‘golden generation’ of incredible attacking talents that didn’t achieve anywhere near as much as Southgate’s side has.

Fact is English players just aren’t that good, they look better than they are when they’re surrounded by talented foreigners in the PL. Then they get found out at international level. They stand a better chance being compact and disciplined.
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We do have good players. But then so do a lot of countries. Look at Sancho, tearing it up in the bundesliga, can't get in the squad.
The idea that they're only good because they are playing with other good players is patently a load of rubbish.
 
Priv said:
From the bench not for the start. You completely ignored that fact. No where did I say he should start gung-ho and play every attacking player. Neither did I say he should shoehorn everyone in like we used to with Lampard and Gerrard that hindered us for years.

Yes I’ve got you mixed up with someone
else whose Scottish but Scottish,Welsh, Irish whatever you are your comments clearly show you’re a touch anglophobic.
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I live in England and support an English football team and pretty much all of my mates are English. I’d like to see you do well. I just think England fans need to be more realistic when it comes to how good they actually are.
 
Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret said:
We do have good players. But then so do a lot of countries. Look at Sancho, tearing it up in the bundesliga, can't get in the squad.
The idea that they're only good because they are playing with other good players is patently a load of rubbish.
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Your international record would suggest otherwise.
 
Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret said:
We got to the final in the last tournament and got to the semi final in the tournament before. We are 5th in the international rankings. Our international record does not suggest otherwise.
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And how did you get there? By playing cautious football, being compact and playing to your strengths as a well drilled team.

Long live Sir Gareth.

Thank you and good night.
 
Scrug said:
And how did you get there? By playing cautious football, being compact and playing to your strengths as a well drilled team.

Long live Sir Gareth.

Thank you and good night.
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We just put six past Iran. At the last world cup Harry kane won the top goalscorer. The idea that we don't have any good players does seem a bit like you have a chip on your shoulder.
 
Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret said:
We just put six past Iran. At the last world cup Harry kane won the top goalscorer. The idea that we don't have any good players does seem a bit like you have a chip on your shoulder.
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You’ve got some very good players, but certainly not any better than the likes of France, Belgium etc.
 
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