*From UK natural resources
Energy price cap forecast for April 2023 = £6,000 a year
- Thread starter sherlock
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ThatFragranceGuy
Well-known member
like what? We use more than we produce and promising here is costly and ever reducing amounts. Where is all this extra supply coming from? Who pays for this mass nationalisation?
We produce more energy in the UK than we use so all of that supplied at cost instead of at wholesale for a start.
Energy consumption in the United Kingdom
Energy balance and production capacities in the United Kingdom including comparison with the USA
www.worlddata.info
ThatFragranceGuy
Well-known member
And the gas that we use to produce the electricity?We produce more energy in the UK than we use so all of that supplied at cost instead of at wholesale for a start.
Energy consumption in the United Kingdom
Energy balance and production capacities in the United Kingdom including comparison with the USA
The half we produce at cost, the rest at wholesale.
However you swing it the total cost for customers would be far lower if we only paid wholesale for the stuff we import and not the stuff we produce.
ThatFragranceGuy
Well-known member
Half? Of gas?
Yes. We produce about half as much gas as we consume. We export some of it, import the rest we need. Do we not? If I'm wrong I'll happily see some data because what I've seen might not be up to date.
sherlock
Well-known member
Do you have a shares interest in energy suppliers? I’ve noticed you seem to push the suppliers argument rather than customers?
ThatFragranceGuy
Well-known member
Nope, I just know how it works having worked for several firms as an analyst.
People going mad at energy suppliers and cancelling their direct debits to show their rage yet filling their car with petrol at the forecourts and making unneeded journeys.
But that is now. You're talking about a massive program of nationalisation to make use of a resource that has been dwindling in efficiency to extract and use for years. Additional resources can be found but expensive to extract.
Gas Reserves in the United Kingdom
See also: List of countries by Gas ReservesThe United Kingdom holds 7.32 trillion cubic feet (Tcf) of proven gas reserves as of 2017, ranking 41stin the world and accounting for about 0.106% of the world's total natural gas reserves of 6,923 Tcf.
The United Kingdom has proven reserves equivalent to 2.6 times its annual consumption. This means it has about 3 years of gas left (at current consumption levels and excluding unproven reserves).
UNITED KINGDOM GAS RESERVES
7,319,000 MMcf
Global Rank: 41st | Share of World's Gas: 0.106 %
3 years of natural gas left
(at current consumption levels)
Not really sustainable
r00fie1
Well-known member
Do you mean, dressing soldiers up in police uniforms - no shoulder number, tooled up and ready to go?Don't worry. They'll use the police first. The police that is 20 000 short
Like the miners strike, at Orgreave?
Jonny Ingbar
Well-known member
I get that the cost to supply energy has risen, but what I cannot accept is that none of this has been absorbed by reduced profits and all of it has been passed onto the customer.
Being able to heat and light your home should be a basic human right, not a luxury, as should all the utilities and the transport network.
Thatcher sold off the state owned utilities, which was a spectacular and appalling misjudgement, yet the Tory leadership battle is permeated by both candidates attempts to be the bigger Thatcherite. Its frightening that the Conservative party voters are wooed by such idiocy.
This country is in its worst state in modern history and something has to change, surely?
Being able to heat and light your home should be a basic human right, not a luxury, as should all the utilities and the transport network.
Thatcher sold off the state owned utilities, which was a spectacular and appalling misjudgement, yet the Tory leadership battle is permeated by both candidates attempts to be the bigger Thatcherite. Its frightening that the Conservative party voters are wooed by such idiocy.
This country is in its worst state in modern history and something has to change, surely?
ThatFragranceGuy
Well-known member
Profit margin on supply, all being well, is 1.9%. It's rarely all well and debt is an unfortunately common scenario, and prices change regularly now.
Energy costs have gone up many, many %
Look at how many suppliers went bust last year as price caps could only flex every 6 months which exposed risky hedging profiles and day trading.
Jonny Ingbar
Well-known member
If you're trying to plead the situation of the energy companies, when many have posted quarter after quarter of record profits, than I'm struggling to see the evidence to support that.
At the very least the market (and wider economy) need to be regulated. Surely any fair minded citizen can see that this current situation is staggeringly perverse?
ThatFragranceGuy
Well-known member
They’re not posting quarter on quarter profits on supply, 5,9 million customers have been given new suppliers since 2019 due to them going out of business. 27 suppliers went bust in 2021 alone as prices soared.
you’re confusing companies that generate power and excavate gas and refine fuel, with companies that supply electricity and gas to homes. Some do both as a diverse business, among other industries like petroleum and mining Etc. shell, bp and the like.
parent companies like centrica for example may post a profit because their fingers are in so many pies, but that’s the idea of having a diverse business. Occasion,y suppliers profit but not by a huge amount and usually down to diverse practices eg boiler install/supply/cover. The profits are obscene on generation right now, but it’s also paying generating tax and they’re being taxed extra to fund the £400 payout. Am sure more can be done but can’t only say what.
majority of companies that supply homes dont generate power, they buy it on open market and decide how much and at what price. The market decides the prices available, driven by demand, Ukraine war, weather etc. You can’t just cancel the cap , because that energy needs buying so someone has to pay for it be it the government or energy suppliers.
Jonny Ingbar
Well-known member
Quite frankly and with respect, that doesn't make a great deal of sense.
The energy market is making huge profits despite the increase in supply and yes, I know that most companies that supply energy aren't the carriers.
The fundamental issue is that the utility market should, at the very least, be a not for profit arrangement, if not nationlised, or majority owned by the state.
Your argument doesn't persuade me one bit.
thewanderer
Well-known member
Take the profit out of what? Most suppliers are just about keeping their heads above the water.
Colgates_shaving_foam
Well-known member
Exactly, you've got a few spiv companies who have inserted themselves into a market in which they have no right to be involved.
Companies who generate electricity should be allowed to sell energy if they wish, but it would have to be at the cap price or lower.
Obviously freezing the cap doesn't change the fundamental price which is why the government has to pick up this tab in the short to medium term.
Chris_Boro
Well-known member
These small companies entered a pond with the sole vision of buying energy at x and sell of y = profit. Not one thought that someday x might rise beyond y.
We are all now paying a huge price for their shortsighted approach while some of the big fish in that particular pond, just get fat.
The whole market is deliberately complicated to allow them to plead poverty while at the same time announce record profits.
HolgateCorner
Well-known member
Just imagine what Corbyn could have been blamed for by the Tory media if he had won the election…..!