Emily Jones Court Case

Why post then?

The case has gone before a judge and jury and on the basis of the full evidence placed before them, they have come to this verdict. Of course the questions that might be raised are how and why a "paranoid schizophrenic" did this? Did we fail our duty of care to him and hence put this girl in danger?
 
Why post then?

The case has gone before a judge and jury and on the basis of the full evidence placed before them, they have come to this verdict. Of course the questions that might be raised are how and why a "paranoid schizophrenic" did this? Did we fail our duty of care to him and hence put this girl in danger?
All reasonable questions.
Discussion is healthy. Wondering why a blatant act of violence is downgraded to manslaughter when quotes from the interviews are very telling.
 
If he’s certifiable the judges instructions to the jury would be very clear that if the balance of his mind was disturbed in any way then he is not guilty. The prosecution know this, which is why they pulled it and pursued a manslaughter charge.

I was on the jury in a very similar case, although the disturbance of the balance of mind was less clear, and the same happened.

edit: manslaughter not murder.
 
Last edited:
If he’s certifiable the judges instructions to the jury would be very clear that if the balance of his mind was disturbed in any way then he is not guilty. The prosecution know this, which is why they pulled it and pursued a murder charge.

I was on the jury in a very similar case, although the disturbance of the balance of mind was less clear, and the same happened.
Cheers for clearing that up for me. I wasn't sure how the courts would deem it manslaughter instead of murder.

Is that ok @Muttley ?
 
If he’s certifiable the judges instructions to the jury would be very clear that if the balance of his mind was disturbed in any way then he is not guilty. The prosecution know this, which is why they pulled it and pursued a manslaughter charge.

I was on the jury in a very similar case, although the disturbance of the balance of mind was less clear, and the same happened.

edit: manslaughter not murder.

"If he’s certifiable"

She's a woman.
 
Can you maintain that BL?
Absolutely disgraceful, that poor little girl was killed in cold blood what an evil woman and she should pay for her action's
😡
😡
😡
😡
😡
The justice system in this country is bad.
 
Absolutely disgraceful, that poor little girl was killed in cold blood what an evil woman and she should pay for her action's
😡
😡
😡
😡
😡
The justice system in this country is bad.
Trial for Murder or Trial for Manslaughter by reason of diminished responsibility, what is the difference?
The lady can still receive a sentence of life imprisonment and the range is 3 – 40 years’ in custody.
 
Life without release in a secure hospital should be the outcome reading the history of her violence and mental issues given alongside this awful crime.

Poor little lass and her family. Simply unimaginably awful.
 
The guy in my trial got seven years, had already server two on remand, so in practice would serve another two and a half. Personally I was convinced it was cold blooded, but the prosecution and judge explained why it was as it was.
 
A person with Paranoid Schizophrenia who is non concordant with prescribed medication is a high risk if not medically supervised in the community. PS means the degree of paranoia is unpredictable and behavioural responses also. In this case it appears [from the edited report of a non medically - qualified journalist] that the patient was in relapse and very ill.

My questions would be -
1. Was the patient being supervised in the community by a Qualified practitioner [CPN]?
2. Did she have an up to date Care Plan?
3. When was the last point of contact?
4. How did she reach the stage where she was clearly receiving medication as prescribed but wasnt concordant with her medical regime?
5. Were Senior Managers made aware of any concerns?
6. Check patients ongoing records. When? Where? Who with? Why?

There are 390,000 people in the UK with Severe Mental Illness - the majority cope with support and access to services through their GP and Community Mental Health Teams. Its unfortunate that media highlights tragic cases like this one - but says little about very vulnerable people with SMI who have experienced savage cuts in community support facilities, such as drop-in centres and advice services.

Community Mental Health Teams have become the Police Service of Mental Health patients in a crisis: the beds are not available in secondary Mental Health Services. Rehabilitation and Therapeutic Intervention services have been closed. People with SMI are often left alone to fend for themselves. We are talking about poorly people - patients - who are a potential risk to themselves and others.

The threshold criteria for intervention by Mental Health Teams is now so high - compared to even 10 years ago - due to severe cuts and closures - there are high risk patients in the community who would previously been supported in hospital, community settings with open access to support, supervision and monitoring.

Imagine if we treated cancer patients in the same way, or stroke patients, or people with neurological conditions - and only intervened at the point when they were experiencing extreme crisis, acute pain, had lost control of their motor-capability or were on the verge of death?

"We" [the public] wouldnt consider locking up a cancer patient or some one who was violent due to dementia. But SMI such as PS is an illness - which cannot be cured - only managed and contained. The potential risk of harm is greater, but the solution isnt behind prison bars. Strict criteria determines when a patient with SMI will be deprived of their liberty under the criteria in law related to the Mental Health Act - whilst others under section 37 of the Mental Health act may have a Restriction Order [41] placed upon them. Its known as a 37 / 41.

99.9999% of people experiencing severe long term mental health issues dont commit acts against the public - in fact they are more likely to hang themselves, swallow bleach, take overdoses of any medication they can find, cut their arms, legs, groin, wrists and other acts of self harm. Any person who is of such high risk does not deserve to be locked up or offered sympathy: they deserve care, support, compassion and investment in health services to promote independence and a decent quality of life.
 
Really feel for the family, and difficult to comprehend what their thoughts must be on this. Was a similar case in York a few years ago.

Shocking cases. Can understand why people think justice hasn’t been served, but the justice system in this country is far from bad despite how it sometimes appears.
 
Feel for the family but just reading that one article you would deem her paranoid schizophrenic. Frightening that she was walking the streets at all but made all the more worrying that she had obviously stopped her medication as a stockpile was found in her home. Surely they must have tests to determine whether patients are taking medication or not. That's supposing she was still seeing people or just left to her own devices.
 
Decent post roof but the bit about comparison to Cancer patients is a bit unfair. A cancer patient is fully compliant in there thoughts that medical intervention is required to become healthy again. A MI patient doesn’t have the balance and sight of the endgame to make that same judgement resulting in them not maintaining the medication plan that stops the episodes. Thus if they are incapable of making that judgement an intervention is required.

I understand the outrage of this being dropped to Manslaughter but the law is clear and in this case the result will be the same... she is going to be put away for a very long time.

the law and sentences are meant to be there for public protection. She won’t be able to do this again for sure so justice is being served.
 
Decent post roof but the bit about comparison to Cancer patients is a bit unfair. A cancer patient is fully compliant in there thoughts that medical intervention is required to become healthy again. A MI patient doesn’t have the balance and sight of the endgame to make that same judgement resulting in them not maintaining the medication plan that stops the episodes. Thus if they are incapable of making that judgement an intervention is required.

I understand the outrage of this being dropped to Manslaughter but the law is clear and in this case the result will be the same... she is going to be put away for a very long time.

the law and sentences are meant to be there for public protection. She won’t be able to do this again for sure so justice is being served.
The point was made, that if we allowed people with physiological issues to be left unsupervised or to fend for themselves - we [the public] would quite rightly - be outraged. However, Mental Health patients are left until there is a crisis before the system responds. Its unfair, but it highlights how we all [collectively] stigmatise mental health.(y)
 
Back
Top