The_Lizards_Jumpers
Well-known member
for the best joke we'll see today
Driverless taxis
- Thread starter GibbosEmpire
- Start date
for the best joke we'll see today
Andy_W
Well-known member
It will be far less, just like all the Tesla autopilot accidents are far less.
I think the Teslas have like 1 accident per 4.3 million miles, and humans have 4 per million miles (on average), in developed countries with actual road rules.
I've been driving about 25 years and have probably done maybe 250,000 miles, had one accident 100% my fault, blind spot, and been in about 5 that have been the fault of others.
Driverless cars don't get tired, don't drink and drive, don't get distracted by passengers etc, and will only get better too, it's the future.
I can understand that driverless cars might not work in places where they have no road rules, but they're the places which should be pushing it the most, as their accident rate is probably 10x worse.
Unravel_Morrison
Well-known member
Dael Fry is going to be furious that those 4 guys are taking his job.
GibbosEmpire
Well-known member
What about the human element, like an ambulance trying to get through? Robots are limited in their understanding of human needs, but on the flip coin humans are also limited in relation to tiredness, driving ability etc
Norman_Conquest
Well-known member
If you have a driverless taxi, does that mean it can carry more passengers?
https://www.theengineer.co.uk/conte... first commercial service,it and for how long.
https://www.theengineer.co.uk/conte... first commercial service,it and for how long.
GibbosEmpire
Well-known member
Surely it would be cheaper for the customer too?
Norman_Conquest
Well-known member
The incidents you mentioned highlight some of the challenges and concerns associated with the use of autonomous vehicles, including driverless taxis. Safety is a paramount concern, and accidents involving autonomous vehicles, even if they are rare, can erode public trust in the technology.
Whether or not you would feel comfortable getting into a driverless taxi is a personal decision and may depend on various factors.
Whether driverless taxis are a "good thing" depends on how well the above concerns are addressed and balanced against the potential benefits. It's essential to consider the ethical, economic, and societal implications of their widespread adoption and to continually monitor and regulate the technology to ensure safety and fairness.
Andy_W
Well-known member
I'm sure that could be programmed in, why couldn't it? The driverless car would see and hear the ambulance faster than a human could when they have the radio blasting and they're not looking in their rearview mirror.
There could be far less cars on the road, and in operation, if driverless taxis were in place, far less cars parked up on the sides of busy streets etc, it wouldn't disappear instantly but could get phased in slowly etc.
Would really help on long trips too, could have a system where you just drive to a hub, jump in a driverless taxi and sit back and relax for 80% of your journey etc. Would end up far cheaper than normal taxi's too, as half the fare probably goes on labour and they would of course all be electric, so far less fule cost.
Norman_Conquest
Well-known member
Why would there be 'far less' cars on the road or parked up?
Norman_Conquest
Well-known member
I think you would find it more expensive due to the technology the car would need to be equipped with.
coluka
Well-known member
I suspect some people would not feel comfortable, Just from the top of my head:-
Vulnerable singles wanting to get away from someone?
Great places for druggies to inject, leaving discarded needles around, whilst en route to wherever.
Who knows to clean them if someone pukes up in one, spills drink over seats or whatever?
How do you pay if the card system fails? Some taxi’s currently accept other methods of payment on occasion (oo er missus) like cash.
Is there a fail safe if you want to get out immediately?
What if you need to cross a ford or a flooded bit of road in a dip, how will the taxi know how deep the water is?
Would you trust a driverless taxi to take you to a cliff top viewpoint.
What happens if a bloke gets overly familiar and agressive with a date on a night out, I can see assaults taking place where they otherwise may not.
Are doors automatically locked? If so what happens in electrical failure from a fire in the engine?
Vulnerable singles wanting to get away from someone?
Great places for druggies to inject, leaving discarded needles around, whilst en route to wherever.
Who knows to clean them if someone pukes up in one, spills drink over seats or whatever?
How do you pay if the card system fails? Some taxi’s currently accept other methods of payment on occasion (oo er missus) like cash.
Is there a fail safe if you want to get out immediately?
What if you need to cross a ford or a flooded bit of road in a dip, how will the taxi know how deep the water is?
Would you trust a driverless taxi to take you to a cliff top viewpoint.
What happens if a bloke gets overly familiar and agressive with a date on a night out, I can see assaults taking place where they otherwise may not.
Are doors automatically locked? If so what happens in electrical failure from a fire in the engine?
Andy_W
Well-known member
I don't know why everyone is so worried?
Everyone on here has likely been on an aircraft with Autopilot and Autoland etc, it's 95% of the flight. The other 5% the aircraft is telling the jockey when there's no going back, or stopping the pilot from doing daft crap like flying into mountains, stalling the aircraft or stressing the airframe.
Sure there are fewer obstructions in the air, but it's a computer dictating the aircraft paths now, and in the air there are far more variables, much faster speeds, higher wind, worse weather, and a lot more complex computation, but it's been safe for over 50 years I think.
Autoland (effectively MLS) is that good they had to build in an error as a tiny section of the runway was getting hammered as every aircraft touched down at the same spot every single time.
Same with what people call GPS (what is actually GNSS, GPS is just the American GNSS), that's like 4m accuracy, but it's only that high as it has an error built into it so it couldn't be used for untoward reasons, but that's not necessary now, as there are about 5 different versions of GNSS, Russia, Europe and China all have their own anyway. GNSS can be made accurate to 0.3m with SBAS, and accurate to 10mm with RTK. Most drivers don't know where their offside is to 300mm when driving at more than 30mph, and it gets worse with more speed, that's why low-speed lanes are ~3m and high-speed lanes more like 4.5m, for cars typically <2m wide.
Cars have had loads of computerised systems making them far safer, collision warnings, adaptive speed, lane keep, ABS, traction control etc etc, but humans still keep finding ways to crash. In all that time computers have got much better at self driving, at an exponential rate, but humans have not got much better, or impraved as much as the aids should have made them. Driverless cars won't speed either, and probably won't be driving down country lanes at 60mph, as they think it's a target speed. They won't get angry with cyclists, no road rage etc.
Everyone on here has likely been on an aircraft with Autopilot and Autoland etc, it's 95% of the flight. The other 5% the aircraft is telling the jockey when there's no going back, or stopping the pilot from doing daft crap like flying into mountains, stalling the aircraft or stressing the airframe.
Sure there are fewer obstructions in the air, but it's a computer dictating the aircraft paths now, and in the air there are far more variables, much faster speeds, higher wind, worse weather, and a lot more complex computation, but it's been safe for over 50 years I think.
Autoland (effectively MLS) is that good they had to build in an error as a tiny section of the runway was getting hammered as every aircraft touched down at the same spot every single time.
Same with what people call GPS (what is actually GNSS, GPS is just the American GNSS), that's like 4m accuracy, but it's only that high as it has an error built into it so it couldn't be used for untoward reasons, but that's not necessary now, as there are about 5 different versions of GNSS, Russia, Europe and China all have their own anyway. GNSS can be made accurate to 0.3m with SBAS, and accurate to 10mm with RTK. Most drivers don't know where their offside is to 300mm when driving at more than 30mph, and it gets worse with more speed, that's why low-speed lanes are ~3m and high-speed lanes more like 4.5m, for cars typically <2m wide.
Cars have had loads of computerised systems making them far safer, collision warnings, adaptive speed, lane keep, ABS, traction control etc etc, but humans still keep finding ways to crash. In all that time computers have got much better at self driving, at an exponential rate, but humans have not got much better, or impraved as much as the aids should have made them. Driverless cars won't speed either, and probably won't be driving down country lanes at 60mph, as they think it's a target speed. They won't get angry with cyclists, no road rage etc.
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Norman_Conquest
Well-known member
There's no doubt these are the future and we all will end up using them, it is like Andy_W is suggesting, they need to gain our confidence and address the issues you mention.
Capybara
Well-known member
I was in Didcot the other day and they have driverless 'buses there. They call them autonomous and there's an emergency human present which might be why they haven't attracted big headlines, but they are there, and operating.
ThatFragranceGuy
Well-known member
Equally no taxi driver to rape them/text them : follow them home
How often do taxis get cleaned? I always find empty bottles and nose bags on the back seats. Again if you're going to do that probably not the best / easiest place with cameras / sensors and patent details on file. Druggies aren't that hard up for places to use
Sensors could do that easily. My house knows if the bath or washing machine has leaked, and that is ultra basic.
Machines accepting cash is ultra basic. Card terminal with back up coin/note slot, but I'd see it more likely that you would have an account rather than relying on card transactions.
Almost certainly there would be a stop / end ride button
How does a car driver?
Seems a bit of a reach, how many people get taxis to cliff top viewpoints?
Sounds like if it's going to happen they're less likely to do it in a device that will have multiple cameras and sensors recording Audio, gps, payment details on file and so on
Could be a hydraulic lock so that it's released upon loss of power or failure similar to why spiders curl up when they die.
Andy_W
Well-known member
Crimes (abuse and drug use) are not problems the car should be solving, or taxi drivers, or bus drivers.
Can people not jack up in their own car, or smoke weed when driving etc?
They would have course have cameras, and people would be daft to do crap like that on camera, when the car and app have an account of who they are.
How often are people sick in taxis during the day/ weeknights? if people are liable they will get billed, and it will soon stop, or it might not stop and people will just get billed like they do now. Obv you might get problems on a weekend night, but if the taxi has sick in it (which is still rare I expect), then it could just be refused (or you just sit in another seat and deal with it for a free far) and then it goes back to the depot, someone sorts it out, or another taxi comes for you, there would be literally thousands available practically instantly.
It won't have a card system, your app will sort that, you would have a pre-charge if you don't know the destination.
How often do people get out of moving vehicles? I'm sure they could have an emergency stop, probably already do, and of course would have tools to break glass etc, which I bet normal taxi's don't have in the back as they could be weaponised against drivers.
How does a human know how deep the flooded road is? How often does this happen? Where it's above a height where it's a problem? Problem locations could be mapped and avoided in adverse weather.
Would you trust a taxi driver you don't know to take you to a remote cliff top?
What happens if the passenger is agressive to the taxi driver or vice versa. It's not the taxi drivers job to mediate or referee fights.
Fires with EV's are far less common. I imagine doors are electronically locked, so wehn electric fail or short, they would fail to an open state. Kind of like how the pressure system in a lorry keeps the brakes off, it doesn't put pressure onto the brakes etc, when the system fails the brake go on and are locked on.
ThatFragranceGuy
Well-known member
Around water depth, lidar can penetrate up to 300M apparently so I guess the car would know exactly how deep it is
Andy_W
Well-known member
Because 10,000 driverless cars could do the job of 50,000 cars.
We've got two cars, and they're parked on the drive, or parked up in some lane or car park somewhere 95% of the time.
If busses went driverless there could be more of them, and they could be a lot more targeted to areas of demand, a bit like tees flex etc.
It's probably already cheaper for me to just get a taxi everywhere than actually own a car, the only reason I don't is taxis are a little unreliable and I can't deal with the small talk all the time. If there were 10x more of them it would be far more reliable, quicker to get one and I wouldn't think twice about ditching one or both cars.
GibbosEmpire
Well-known member
Driverless taxis, driverless buses, next we will have driverless trains, what about the millions of workers?