Dorman Long Tower - Listed Building Status

newyddion said:
You seem to be saying that because you worked there and you didn’t like it that it should be demolished and that anyone thinking otherwise is being overly nostalgic and romantic when in truth they know nothing of industry or what it meant.

You talk about paying for the upkeep.. but how much would it cost to build that structure from scratch (without the history and heritage attached) How much would any of the buildings cost to rebuild that have been demolished?

Then what would be their value to our local economy, how much is it worth to us to have buildings of significant historical and architectural significance? It’s much more than the car parks and wastelands that were currently left with.
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Not much value at all, it would be as pointless as keeping ayresome park intact because it had history. You’re in the minority of people who have an attachment for an history you’ve never been part of.
 
Ex pfc wintergreen said:
My post will probably get me banned but here it goes,. You response Rob is emotional twaddle ( no offence meant) from someone who has never worked in the steelworks, apart from being a presence on the skyline the furnace and the doorman long tower serve no purpose and have no purpose. I and many others worked in the steelworks, it was a dirty dangerous place and the job was a means to an end,nothing more. I started as a trainee in 1977 and worked throughout Cleveland,lackenby and Redcar works.i was on shift the night the two lads got killed riding the BOS plant conveyor belt,one of the lads from the mill where I worked,( no9 light section mill)was meant to meet with them,he was from the same batch of trainee's. were were young trainee's then, boys in a man's world,not even meant to operate in the operating boxes until we were eighteen,until then we did boys jobs but operated the rolling stands anyway. I worked with men who had served in the war and had some been torpedoed whilst serving in the navy,a fine bunch who laughed at my punk hair but indulged us for the kids we were. They took pride as working men of that generation did but none had affection for the hot dirty mill,or the coke ovens,furnaces and workshops they inhabited People talk about " our heritage"and "we built the world", well that might be a source of local pride but it means nothing in the wider world. To the kids born after the millennium, the steelworks means nothing,( I've asked) they are just derilict buildings you pass by on the trunk road or the A66. In a decade or two people like me will be gone and the final links severed. I can understand that for people who are interested in architecture the doorman tower has some interest,but it's locale means it remains a curiosity and not a viable project for renovation and use,in twenty years people will wonder why that grey concrete bunker is still standing. Anyway,I just thought I'd elaborate on why we can't hold on to the past from the point of view of someone who has lived it rather than appear to come across as a philistine with no appreciation of the Areas building blocks of development.
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Wonderful emotional post and a fascinating insight. Thanks for sharing.

My only point would be that it almost suggests that unless you worked there, you don't / should not have an opinion.
 
Tryasize10 said:
Wonderful emotional post and a fascinating insight. Thanks for sharing.

My only point would be that it almost suggests that unless you worked there, you don't / should not have an opinion.
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Thank you for your response, I’m not saying people can’t have an input or opinion, I’m just trying to put across that for most people who worked there the steelworks don’t have the emotional pull as some who never work there put see them as a talisman for the area. I take the point about Just getting rid of things we no longer need but in this case it’s justified.
 
Ex pfc wintergreen said:
You never worked in the steel works, living in the area and working in the industries that built the area are not the same,it’s vicarious association.
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I never worked in the steelworks, I never worked in the odeon or the infirmary either.

Perhaps we should keep any mention of Captain Cook limited to those who sailed with him?
 
newyddion said:
I understand your position, I don’t agree with it.
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You don’t have to, and if you look through my posts on this thread you will see I agree that bulldozing the past willynilly is wrong, and j understand some people would like to see some buildings and strutures stand. My view for a myriad of reasons is the furnace and tower need to go.some might not agree, plenty do. Let it stand as long as public money is not spent on it, or build a replica in your back garden if it gives you comfort. At some point the Wilton cooling towers and columns will go, do you want to save them because, you know, it’s our heritage.if the transporter had to be demolished because of metal fatigue would you want it rebuilt because of heritage.
 
I don't want to live in a world of featureless retail estate buildings all built roughly at the same time and with everyone living in white and black houses with George Clark interiors. I prefer some identity, some vernacular, some buildings and structures that preserve different epochs in the past. Some sense of drama and some sense of history and strife. Something interesting to look at out of the train or from the Black Path. What I don't understand is why people lobby for things to be destroyed and denied to others.
 
Ex pfc wintergreen said:
You don’t have to, and if you look through my posts on this thread you will see I agree that bulldozing the past willynilly is wrong, and j understand some people would like to see some buildings and strutures stand. My view for a myriad of reasons is the furnace and tower need to go.some might not agree, plenty do. Let it stand as long as public money is not spent on it, or build a replica in your back garden if it gives you comfort. At some point the Wilton cooling towers and columns will go, do you want to save them because, you know, it’s our heritage.if the transporter had to be demolished because of metal fatigue would you want it rebuilt because of heritage.
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I have no problem with the furnace going, I do not want a replica to be built. If at some point the Wilton cooling towers and columns need to go then do be it.

The Transporter Bridge is already listed so it should be repaired and maintained when necessary. I didn’t agree with the steps being taken off and sold for scrap, I think it should be painted red (it’s original colour) I would be happy for it to stand as a monument to out past without the gondola as long as a working bridge was built in it’s place. Like the one that should have been built there in the first place!
 
fmttmadmin said:
I don't want to live in a world of featureless retail estate buildings all built roughly at the same time and with everyone living in white and black houses with George Clark interiors. I prefer some identity, some vernacular, some buildings and structures that preserve different epochs in the past. Some sense of drama and some sense of history and strife. Something interesting to look at out of the train or from the Black Path. What I don't understand is why people lobby for things to be destroyed and denied to others.
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It could be asked why people want to hang to things just because they think they should. Have you any idea what the development costs for the tower would be just to make it safe?. That whole area is a dust bowl in the summer and a mud bath in the winter for those who worked there. Just to make it a brownfield site or to landscape it would take millions . The A66 roundabouts from grangetown through south bank have mementoes of the iron steel industry past, that’s the way forward, not giant bottles and butterfly nets that have no relevance, art for arts sake indeed.
 
Ex pfc wintergreen said:
It could be asked why people want to hang to things just because they think they should. Have you any idea what the development costs for the tower would be just to make it safe?. That whole area is a dust bowl in the summer and a mud bath in the winter for those who worked there. Just to make it a brownfield site or to landscape it would take millions . The A66 roundabouts from grangetown through south bank have mementoes of the iron steel industry past, that’s the way forward, not giant bottles and butterfly nets that have no relevance, art for arts sake indeed.
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How much does it cost to demolish it? It clearly wasn’t in that much of a state structurally otherwise they wouldn’t have had to jump the gun to start weakening it. The land will be worth more than the cost of clearing it. No way is having bits of scrap metal strewn over roundabouts the way forward!

I would say having expensive pieces of public art should be the icing on the cake when it comes to city redevelopment and not necessarily the first port of call. I’m a big fan of Claes Oldenburg’s ‘Bottle of Notes’ Anish Kapoor’s ‘Temenos’ - not so much. I think he is a total blag. Part of the the £15m Tees Valley Giants.. assuming we only paid £3m for the ‘butterfly net’ (I’d rather have seen it spent on the tower)
 
There is an article in the Gazette today regarding the Dorman Long Tower.

Cllr Sue Jeffrey said: “I believe the council as planning authority should be taking steps to stop this demolition by immediately serving a building preservation order on the tower.

“This will delay demolition for six months and allow time for the council to submit an application for listed status to Historic England in line with the Local Plan policy to safeguard the tower.”



www.gazettelive.co.uk

Heritage 'not a consideration' as council weighs up Dorman Long demolition bid

Officials have denied work to knock down the structure has already started after a demolition firm was seen at the site
www.gazettelive.co.uk www.gazettelive.co.uk
 
Echoes of the industrial past are quite poignant. I had a walk up in Wensleydale a week or so ago and if you go up onto the top you can still find remains of the old Lead mining industries which shaped the dale. Unless we preserve something from the Iron and Steel industries in a few generations time there will be nothing left of the "Ironopolis". Whether that is the DL tower or something else we would be diminished by it's passing. I understand that those who have worked there have little love for it. I dare say the Roman infantryman had a very low opinion of a posting to Vindolanda. But a preserved monolith in parkland might well be something that would enhance the area with sufficient imagination if say it was surrounded by a natural woodland it could be rather nice in twenty or so years time.
 
Ex pfc wintergreen said:
It could be asked why people want to hang to things just because they think they should. Have you any idea what the development costs for the tower would be just to make it safe?. That whole area is a dust bowl in the summer and a mud bath in the winter for those who worked there. Just to make it a brownfield site or to landscape it would take millions . The A66 roundabouts from grangetown through south bank have mementoes of the iron steel industry past, that’s the way forward, not giant bottles and butterfly nets that have no relevance, art for arts sake indeed.
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newyddion said:
How much does it cost to demolish it? It clearly wasn’t in that much of a state structurally otherwise they wouldn’t have had to jump the gun to start weakening it. The land will be worth more than the cost of clearing it. No way is having bits of scrap metal strewn over roundabouts the way forward!

I would say having expensive pieces of public art should be the icing on the cake when it comes to city redevelopment and not necessarily the first port of call. I’m a big fan of Claes Oldenburg’s ‘Bottle of Notes’ Anish Kapoor’s ‘Temenos’ - not so much. I think he is a total blag. Part of the the £15m Tees Valley Giants.. assuming we only paid £3m for the ‘butterfly net’ (I’d rather have seen it spent on the tower)
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The scrap metal on our roundabouts are reminders of our “ heritage” you and Rob keep banging on about,the land is not worth that much, it’s brownfield and there is loads of it in that area, it can’t be gentrified because of it’s location . It really is a white elephant.
 
Ex pfc wintergreen said:
The scrap metal on our roundabouts are reminders of our “ heritage” you and Rob keep banging on about,the land is not worth that much, it’s brownfield and there is loads of it in that area, it can’t be gentrified because of it’s location . It really is a white elephant.
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I'm talking about heritage assets, not trinkets or mementoes.

Council 'cannot consider heritage' over demolition

"The Dorman Long tower is not listed and does not lie in an area of special control, and so it benefits from no protection under the Planning Act."

So, pretty much the owners of the site can do what they want with it and no one in terms of councillors or MPs has made one single effort to protect the tower.
 
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