Did we go up a year too late under karanka

zorro_mfc

Well-known member
#1
Interesting article in the gazette - there’s no doubt the feel good factor was there before the play of game at Norwich and we looked a decent side, and we carried that form into the following promotion season.
So do you agree ?
 

zorro_mfc

Well-known member
#2
I was always surprised how quickly we were to off load kike as he was popular he seemed to be happy on teesside plus he scored goals and as we have seen in la liga he is still competing in Spain’s top flight to this day.
 
#3
We had better attacking players. At least until Ramirez signed. Scored 5 more goals but conceded 6 more. 5 fewer points.
Our defence was ridiculous that 2nd season.

I don't think it impacted though really as we had a poor summer of recruitment. That's what ultimately did for us. Unsuitable centre forward for the system. Rubbish gamble for the left wing slot. Worse right back than what we had. Traore wasn't ready to carry the team in an attacking sense yet. Mediocre goalkeepers.

I suppose a younger George and leadbitter and a team spirit not affected by fallouts may have helped a little.
 

atypical_boro

Well-known member
#5
I loved the 2014-2016 spell but by the end of 2016 it was clear that Karanka attached no value to the 'team spirit' and connection between fans and players that existed that had helped get us up, and ultimately just thought the players were nowhere near good enough.

If we'd gone up a year earlier I'm not sure he'd have viewed it any differently and I suspect we'd have had the same results.

Look at Sheffield United as an example of a team doing it the 'right way', and there have been others.
 

atypical_boro

Well-known member
#7
Gibson backing Karanka in January would have helped. Massive error.
He brought in 3 players that Karanka, by all accounts, wanted. Even though 2 of them turned out to be dreadful signings in every way.

Obviously Karanka wanted the famous 4 players (Jese, Bojan, Snodgrass, Deulofeu) we didn't get as well, but when you look at those players now I'm not sure any of them would have necessarily 'saved' us. And I doubt it was ever the plan to sign all 4. Obviously the Ramirez situation didn't help.
 
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parmoboy

Well-known member
#8
I wouldn't say we went up a year too late - Karankas' biggest mistake was not being loyal to the players who got us up.

Dimi, Ayala, Nsue, Leadbitter and Adomah all deserved the chance to play for us in the Premier League. I'd go as far as to say Rhodes deserved more chances as well, especially as Negredo went on a long run without scoring at one point.
 

nowthen

Active member
#9
He brought in 3 players that Karanka, by all accounts, wanted. Even though 2 of them turned out to be dreadful signings in every way.

Obviously Karanka wanted the famous 4 players (Jese, Bojan, Snodgrass, Deulofeu) we didn't get as well, but when you look at those players now I'm not sure any of them would have necessarily 'saved' us. And I doubt it was ever the plan to sign all 4. Obviously the Ramirez situation didn't help.
Karanka’s reaction in the press conference, following the window closing, told a different story.
 

nowthen

Active member
#11
I didn't think it did. I don't think there was ever any doubt that he wanted the 3 we got, just that he wanted more creativity as well.
"We need to improve the team, and the club knew a month and a half ago the players that I wanted," the Spaniard told members of the media.
"I always said the aim in the transfer window was to improve the squad. At the moment, we haven't done that. We will be disappointed if nobody else comes in, but I have tried my best.
"Teams in our position are signing players for £14m – we are signing players that didn't play in the Championship."
Karanka said it was unrealistic to expect Bamford, who made six substitute appearances while on loan at Burnley prior to joining the club, to shoulder the scoring burden.
"If we are expecting that Patrick was going to arrive and score five goals straight away then we are making a big mistake because he is not ready now,"
"I don't know why we haven't signed our targets. That is not my job. I am the coach,"
 

Otto42

Well-known member
#12
I thought we should have persevered with Vossen and Tomlin from the play off side, not sure it would have made a lot of difference in the premier though. It was always going to be touch and go to stay up whenever we went up. I'm not sure whether a full season of Karanka would have kept us up, but we certainly would have been closer than we were with Agnew!
 

atypical_boro

Well-known member
#14
"We need to improve the team, and the club knew a month and a half ago the players that I wanted," the Spaniard told members of the media.
"I always said the aim in the transfer window was to improve the squad. At the moment, we haven't done that. We will be disappointed if nobody else comes in, but I have tried my best.
"Teams in our position are signing players for £14m – we are signing players that didn't play in the Championship."
Karanka said it was unrealistic to expect Bamford, who made six substitute appearances while on loan at Burnley prior to joining the club, to shoulder the scoring burden.
"If we are expecting that Patrick was going to arrive and score five goals straight away then we are making a big mistake because he is not ready now,"
"I don't know why we haven't signed our targets. That is not my job. I am the coach,"
Indeed. But he categorically told Bamford he wanted to bring him back, then he resigned Guedioura only a year or so later at Forest suggesting he wanted him too.

Not sure about Gestede, but regardless, if he'd maintained some of the essence of the promotion side he might have been able to build a team that was greater than the sum of its parts. Instead he seemed to just tell Gibson the players he wanted then spat his dummy out when he didn't/couldn't get them.

'Backing him' may have helped, but him backing his own players a bit more might have helped too. Jese/Bojan have turned out to be absolute dross since, so as I say, there were no guarantees.
 
#15
If Karanka wanted better players then he should have picked more realistic targets. All of the players mentioned were unlikely to sign for one reason or another. Jese didn't want to come here and wanted to move back to his club. Hull didn't want to strengthen a relegation rival. Deulofeu I get the impression probably thought he was better than our level when he was still being linked with returning abroad at the time. Bojan - I think Stoke wanted to sell rather than loan (although they did settle with a loan in the end) and signing him outright wouldn't have been any better than the ones we did make considering how his career has continued to nosedive.

In the end the club failed because they entertained the idea of trying to get Karanka's targets until the very end. Then panic bought what we did and overspent on below average players for the division just to get bodies in. The club should have moved on much sooner but with the way Karanka reacted at times maybe they were worried he'd walk if they put their foot down.
 

nowthen

Active member
#16
I don't think there was ever any doubt that he wanted the 3 we got”

to

“then he resigned Guedioura only a year or so later at Forest suggesting he wanted him too.” Suggesting being the key word, maybe he saw him at Boro and thought he could do a job at championship level?

to

Not sure about Gestede”

I see doubt there myself..
 

atypical_boro

Well-known member
#17
I don't think there was ever any doubt that he wanted the 3 we got”

to

“then he resigned Guedioura only a year or so later at Forest suggesting he wanted him too.” Suggesting being the key word, maybe he saw him at Boro and thought he could do a job at championship level?

to

Not sure about Gestede”

I see doubt there myself..
Having re-read those comments, with the benefit of 3 years worth of hindsight, you're right an element of doubt has crept into my conviction on the subject.

Overall, though, my view remains that our managers still have a say in who we sign, and that even if they weren't the 3 he thought were priority, he probably identified them as players he'd prefer to sign than not sign.

Otherwise we have to let Pulis off the hook for signing McNair and not playing him, or Saville, or Flint and then selling him a year later. We have to let Monk off for the £50m he spent on players who didn't deliver anything. We can't say Karanka was hard done by but then say that all our other managers have just made rubbish signings.
 

nowthen

Active member
#19
Having re-read those comments, with the benefit of 3 years worth of hindsight, you're right an element of doubt has crept into my conviction on the subject.

Overall, though, my view remains that our managers still have a say in who we sign, and that even if they weren't the 3 he thought were priority, he probably identified them as players he'd prefer to sign than not sign.

Otherwise we have to let Pulis off the hook for signing McNair and not playing him, or Saville, or Flint and then selling him a year later. We have to let Monk off for the £50m he spent on players who didn't deliver anything. We can't say Karanka was hard done by but then say that all our other managers have just made rubbish signings.
As he said, he was made head coach, not manager. He was then gifted Orta by Gibson, Orta, who was Gibson’s idea, granted Karanka didn’t have to take him, but did he have to take Downing? Then there’s long term targets by our “scouting” department... Were Gibson and Gill building for another go in the championship?
 
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