Derby Cleared of All Charges.

He should moan about the rules if the rules are F***ing stupid. Which they are.

There should be no financial Fair play in the first place. And if there is to be FFP, then this ludicrous nonsense about selling grounds to yourself needs to be ended. I mean it's actively encouraging dodgy owners. No wonder football attracts the sort of owners Wigan and Charlton are lumbered with.
 
It's correct the valuation was based on the ground being a multi entertainment venue, the ground itself was valued at around £35mil, Mel Morris's umbrella company paid £80mil, based on currently valued at £35mil it was only used around 30/35 days a year for 'entertainment events' = Derby's home matches. They calculated it would cost around £20mil to convert to an indoor/outdoor entertainmemt arena, which they could then use 100 days+ a year, so valued it at £100mil venue, less the £20mil to convert, it was sold for £80mil. As a business package/transaction it looks about right. However we all know it will never be converted and used as a multi entertainment venue to this extent.
 
According to Sky Sports, the other 23 clubs of the Championship have to pay for the legal fees from this court case because the EFL lost.
 
NYboro said:
FFP needs to be fit for purpose, as do the rest of the EFL rules. They're a shambles.
Click to expand...

I certainly agree there are major problems with FFP and especially clarity and consistent application. Aston Villa are by far the biggest example of that; much bigger than Derby.
My point is Gibson appears to want to unrealistically try and drag everyone down to his level when he is unwilling to even invest to a level indisputably within current FFP.
Others are "investing" and being "creative" too. If he isn't going to invest then we have absolutely no chance of competing. Hence the depressing ever decreasing circle. Ipswich here we come.
 
Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret said:
If we have no chance of competing how come we finished 2nd a few years ago, and had a couple of seasons in the playoffs.
Click to expand...
Because Gibson DID put money in (£8m new equity in 2016) when we finished 2nd and was willing to guarantee the loss made that season in getting promoted with a competitive squad.
Then because we got promoted, the EFL couldn't act and the PL did nothing about us breaking FFP rules (in the same way they did nothing/little with many other promoted clubs like Bournemouth, Fulham, Watford and most recently Villa). Had we lost at home to Brighton we would have been in the ****, FFP and overall.
It is **** or bust to get up. Get up and you will escape the FFP rules of the Championship. Don't get up and you are hit with a huge points fine.
You have to give yourself a chance of going up by spending more than your revenue. If you don't you can't compete, it is as simple as that.
PL media money, parachute payments and profit on players sold buy you time.
Without it you are circling doom.

It is possible to get up without spending/investment - Sheff U are proof - but there are precious few such examples. The vast majority have to spend beyond their means while in the Championship. That involves owners injecting equity, being creative to stay within FFP and guaranteeing loss on the way.
We don't know what Gibson will do, but the indications are he won't be investing based on the last 4 years.
 
I was under the impression he simply was able to amortise the finances. The previous seasons of thrift under mowbray, were continued under Karanka whose 1st full season was funded by the sales of juke and emnes. He only spent money in the final season as we were in a position to do so.
We seem to operate on a boom and bust cycle of finance, and if we've got a decent chance of going up he will certainly put the money in.

I'm frankly glad he didn't **** away more money. I think you're idea that Gibson is not willing to invest is nonsense.
 
fmttmadmin said:
I wonder who was on the Independent Disciplinary Commission anyone know?
Click to expand...
Don't know who but I think there will be on the report about this case very shortly. I will try and post it on here if you want?
Anterimus said:
It's almost as if Derby's chief exec is on the EFL Board or something.......
Click to expand...
That's nothing to do with it. Don't think Stephen Pearce were EFL board member at the time stadium. Can't remember the date he joined them but I can assure you that.
pontyandy said:
Now the most hated club in the Championship now Leeds have gone?
Click to expand...
We don't care about that to be honest.
Alvez_48 said:
Got away with it big time
Click to expand...
Not really because we did everything and asked EFL to check if this ok and signed so they did that. Independent commission panel said we haven't done anything wrong so maybe listen to them ?
FatCat said:
I was expecting this given I saw a transfer rumour earlier saying that they were looking to sign Blackburn’s gk for 4 mil. Obviously they had been given the nod at some point earlier that they were to be cleared.
Click to expand...
Think you seeing wrong about that as we're not in for Blackburn goalkeeper or are you making it up? Only £4m rumours was about Panzo who we were not in for him.. Rumours everywhere these days...
Anterimus said:
Sorry, my comment about Derby's chief exec being on the EFL board was in regards to the original over valuation of the stadium being signed off by the EFL.

It's a tough one but fair play if they have found a way around FFP. I would still be very worried if I was a Derby fan though, especially if stories of this £30m loan are correct. Apparently the club was also under a "soft" transfer embargo until the verdict was announced.

It's my understanding, and I may be wrong but the independant tribunal is made up of 3 people. 1 from the club, 1 from the EFL and 1 independant. If so, wonder who the one from the EFL was 😁😁.
Click to expand...
£30m loan is incorrect and it's £15m.
Borobarmy said:
They need to check out the Rooney deal . Rotten t**t number 32 , just like him
Click to expand...
Take it you are bit slow on this news? FA confirmed that nothing wrong with this deal so leave it.
Edis_Pilf said:
And they are now linked with Marcus Madison.
I hope it goes pear shaped for them.
Click to expand...
Nothing new on that rumours anyway.
NYboro said:
FFP needs to be fit for purpose, as do the rest of the EFL rules. They're a shambles.
Click to expand...
They need to sort it out I agreed with you on that.


By the way you tried to sign Matthew Clarke on loan until yesterday. Great day all round today. Thanks Mr Derby County FC.
 
Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret said:
I was under the impression he simply was able to amortise the finances. The previous seasons of thrift under mowbray, were continued under Karanka whose 1st full season was funded by the sales of juke and emnes. He only spent money in the final season as we were in a position to do so.
We seem to operate on a boom and bust cycle of finance, and if we've got a decent chance of going up he will certainly put the money in.

I'm frankly glad he didn't **** away more money. I think you're idea that Gibson is not willing to invest is nonsense.
Click to expand...

I didn't say he wasn't prepared to invest, I said he definitely hasn't since 2016. That is not nonsense it is fact.

The Club lost £32m pre tax in the promotion season to June 2016. £8m equity was injected. The wage bill was 150% of turnover that season.
Pre tax loss was £9m the season to June 2015 Play Offs and £0 equity was injected.Wage bill was 100% of significantly increased revenue in this Karanka's first full season.
Pre tax loss in year to June 2014 was £20m, £5m equity was injected. Our wage bill was well over 100% of revenue in this season of cross over between Mowbray and Karanka.
Without promotion and the PL blind eye, we would have been very close to FFP problems and certainly thereafter; no wonder he looked relieved at final whistle against Brighton.

I have no more idea of whether he will invest again than you.
If he doesn't he will have to shore up losses made even with a lower wage bill.
Spending/investing is gambling, as there is no certainty in getting promoted.
But there is a certainty that he will end up with a smaller and smaller club still making losses if he doesn't.

(By the way you amortise fees agreed in buying intangible assets like players, not losses as you stated).
 
I worked out the average loss was around £18m per club in the Championship in 2018/19 - some clubs like Villa were playing £70k/week in loan wages for a player - I would guess the average players wage bill was something like £22m - with average player on £18k/week - its just not sustainable. It looks like we have made a stand over the last season and the coming one. Our loss will be way below £18m this season. We sold Braithwaite/Randolph/Flint last season to raise the cash (£13.5m) to keep us within FFP, we can't do that every season. Hence it looks like no more £20k plus a week new contracts.
 
So you think that giving monk, Pulis or woody 8 million extra would have made the difference?
He will invest again when we have a chance of going up. As he did under Karanka and mowbray.
 
Said it from the beginning, Gibson needs to focus on the shambles he’s turned our club into before worrying what other clubs are doing.
 
Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret said:
So you think that giving monk, Pulis or woody 8 million extra would have made the difference?
He will invest again when we have a chance of going up. As he did under Karanka and mowbray.
Click to expand...
Well if he doesn’t back Warnock ( a genuinely top class coach in his league) this season with players he can work with them I think He’ll go and who’d blame him.
 
zorro_mfc said:
Well if he doesn’t back Warnock ( a genuinely top class coach in his league) this season with players he can work with them I think He’ll go and who’d blame him.
Click to expand...
That's exactly what I was thinking. There isn't a manager out there with a better track record of promotion from this league than Neil Warnock, so surely the time to back the manager financially is now.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top