Daily Mail hatchet job on Boro and Wycombe

Uwefuchs said:
Yeah I've read your replies on this thread and you make a good point about it being a potentially difficult case to win.

I guess I'm just looking back at that period where Derby were throwing money at bringing in Lampard and an expensively assembled squad and their league position was artificially inflated.

Take out their loan players that season and there's no way that they finish 6th absolutely no chance. I think that part is easy to argue, the difficult bit comes after that.
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Yes, I'd agree. Derby's performance is on the balance of probabilities likely to have artificially improved their league position (otherwise why would they have done it?). The next limb of what we need to prove is where the problem lies (in my opinion), especially in the context of a penalty having already been imposed fully in accordance with the rules i.e. but for Derby's breaches Middlesbrough would have finished in the top 6. We shall see though, it seems unlikely that Gibson is going to let it go.
 
Adi_Dem said:
Yes, I'd agree. Derby's performance is on the balance of probabilities likely to have artificially improved their league position (otherwise why would they have done it?). The next limb of what we need to prove is where the problem lies (in my opinion), especially in the context of a penalty having already been imposed fully in accordance with the rules i.e. but for Derby's breaches Middlesbrough would have finished in the top 6. We shall see though, it seems unlikely that Gibson is going to let it go.
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So in summary Adi, the claims can't be settled through the normal legal process in the time frame set by the EFL for Derby to exit administration by finding a buyer, so the only way to remove this particular obstacle to sale is a negotiated settlement or Gibson to withdraw the claim?

BTW I don't personally on my admittedly limited knowledge believe that the claims by Boro and Wycombe are the only thing stopping the sale.
 
Disgraceful really. He must be a mate of Doctor Eggman to have written that bog roll.

You've got a bloke who won't pay the tax bill and is holding the club to ransom for their own stadium and this tosser wants to go on about 19-20 season results.
 
We were denied a chance of the play offs by 1 point by a team that probably spent around three times what it should have - no one is saying denied promotion - but every team in the Championship play offs has at least a 15% to 20% chance of promotion.

Derby's actions likely inflated wages for whole division too. A division that has a lot of clubs struggling financially.
 
Derby submitted false accounts for the year to June 2019 and 2020. This is fact as they have had to re-produce the work and it is still not in the public domain.
They had to submit a projection of their Accounts before the start of the 2018-19 season in order to pass that particular FFP assessment. The actual Accounts submitted for that season appear to have passed initial scrutiny so their role in the Play Offs could not be challenged and they had already been played anyway. Thankfully Derby lost and could not disappear into the PL ether.
Gibson knows more about financing a Football Club through a Group than any poster on here. He challenged Derby's books for 2019 (that season) and the EFL dealt with it ridiculously slowly, allowing Derby to submit more falsified Accounts for the next season to June 2020. Derby under Morris have dragged their heels throughout and the EFL have moved like Ray Hankin onto a through ball.
Gibson's initial case was against the EFL for not correctly administering their own processes. They could have identified the Derby position in the summer of 2019, indeed earlier than that. They did not. The EFL then sought to minimise their own exposure (cover their own vulnerable ****).
It appears that the EFL agreed that MFC can seek recompense from Derby for cheating in the season 2018-19. The focus has become MFC pursuing compensation for Derby County cheating.

The EFL should never have let this situation arise. There needs to be a thorough overhaul of FFP framework, process and penalties and it needs to cover offenders returning to the EFL from the PL (Villa, Fulham etc).
But it has got to where it has and Gibson IMHO is absolutely entitled to pursue DCFC and indirectly Morris for compensation and hold up their release from Administration - self imposed let's remember - until it is resolved.
The past owner Morris who was the cheat could resolve this quickly. He has the wealth and the moral burden.
A future owner could resolve it easily by agreeing compensation and speedily releasing the Club to continue playing.

Gibson is spot on.
1. He should seek compensation direct after the EFL failed to act properly.
2. He should stand firm and leverage, forcing the cheat or the new owner to pay for the Club's misdemeanours. He would settle for a fraction of the number quoted I'm sure. There is no way he should make the Morris exit easy for Morris, nor subsidise the new owners position (especially given that may very indirectly be Morris)
3. He should allow no bleating from the sheep or rubber knecking passers by to put him off his position.

Morris is the bad guy here, the EFL have been the dumb guy who has mis handled things. Gibson has patiently waited for some kind of justice...and to shine a light on the need for proper enforcement of or change to rules.
 
Adi_Dem said:
As I have said repeatedly - all of this is in my opinion!
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I get that Adi and some opinions are more informed than others!

But I always keep coming back to the fact that the club has advice which must obviously state they have a case that has, at least, more than a 50/50 chance of winning.

The whole thing is very unsavory though, which it was always going to be given football supporters are generally a very partisan crowd, so to speak.
 
Jonny Ingbar said:
I get that Adi and some opinions are more informed than others!

But I always keep coming back to the fact that the club has advice which must obviously state they have a case that has, at least, more than a 50/50 chance of winning.

The whole thing is very unsavory though, which it was always going to be given football supporters are generally a very partisan crowd, so to speak.
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It is very unsavoury. I have decided to stop sharing my own views. I think I have made them pretty clear but there is enough noise and negativity aimed at the club from fans, media and other people in the public eye and even in our small corner of the world I don't think there's any need for me to add to that negativity. They won't change unless something comes out to fundamentally make a difference but I don't have to bang on about them. So I won't! Instead I will say this: I hope there is a situation in which Gibson gets what he wants for MFC and Derby can survive liquidation.
 
I think the key to this may be the debt to MSD Holdings, approx £20m, which carries a personal guarantee from Mel Morris. My understanding, as a layperson, is that liquidation would trigger that liability i.e. MSD can come after MM personally. MSD is, in practice, Michael Dell of Dell Computers, who is worth about $60 billion. This is the situation that MM wishes to avoid - personal liability to someone out of his weight division. He is therefore under pressure to reach an agreement with Boro and Wycombe to avoid liquidation and leave the liabilities with DCFC. Gibbo knows this and is keeping the pressure on.
 
JackG said:
I think the key to this may be the debt to MSD Holdings, approx £20m, which carries a personal guarantee from Mel Morris. My understanding, as a layperson, is that liquidation would trigger that liability i.e. MSD can come after MM personally. MSD is, in practice, Michael Dell of Dell Computers, who is worth about $60 billion. This is the situation that MM wishes to avoid - personal liability to someone out of his weight division. He is therefore under pressure to reach an agreement with Boro and Wycombe to avoid liquidation and leave the liabilities with DCFC. Gibbo knows this and is keeping the pressure on.
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I also think making sure the new owner can’t buy the stadium back for less than £80m will be part 2, once Derby come out of administration.

Gibson needs to keep the pressure on with the EFL to make sure this cannot haopen.
 
Genuine question, could MM go to gaol for what he’s done? False accounting / fraud type thing?
 
Heard simon jordan say on talksport that he had phonecall with gibson and apparent 'apoplectic ' with the administrator's and the media slurs against him as the 'scapegoat"...no doubt morris is behind this
 
Mel Morris is a fiddling lying cheating bankrupt who is being kept partially afloat using the media life-bouy.
Gibson has a right to be heard.
Where is this human question mark where Derby are concerned?
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"Using PPG, Wycombe, who had a game in hand, jumped from eighth to third, based on 1.73 points per game. Yet their game in hand was away at top of the table Coventry, who were averaging 1.97 points per game. That made the imaginary Coventry versus Wycombe a 3.7-point match. Yet when Wycombe’s promotion rivals visited Coventry and played a real game with real footballers, they could only receive three points, maximum."

WTF?!!! Has he been sniffing glue?

For the record, Wycombe were one point off third place when the season was curtailed, with a game in hand on all of their promotion rivals and two games in hand on Sunderland (who were above them only on goal difference). That the Points Per Game calculation moved them up to third in the table means that they were, in effect, awarded just over 1 point for their game in hand.
 
sherlock1969 said:
www.dailymail.co.uk

MARTIN SAMUEL: Lawsuits of Derby County are based on fantasy seasons

CHIEF SPORTS WRITER: Without a saviour Derby could be just a week from liquidation. Incredibly, the EFL's main involvement was to strike a deal with Middlesbrough to stop Steve Gibson suing them.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk

This has the Derby fans all excited....
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You know which side of an argument you're on if the Daily Mail backs you up! Very telling that the Derby fans are screaming for tory MPs to give them a hand. Nadine Dorries FFS
 
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