Wiseman_Vaughn
Well-known member
It has all got a little bit silly hasn't it? I couldn't be Ars£d to be outraged on a daily basis. It's tiring
Could somebody please explain
- Thread starter turnoffsaysthestar
- Start date
I think one of the issues with calling something "Racist" is that in peoples head there are no degrees of Racism - when you hear "Racist" you are thinking of someone aggressively calling someone the n-word, or screaming and shouting obscenities at people (which obviously still happens...). This immediately gets peoples backs up and puts them on the defensive - I'm not a racist, what are you talking about?! - and issues like this (which in the grand scheme of things, taken as an isolated incident, is not that big of a deal) become the target of "it's PC gone mad" and "it's going too far now!" and instinctively creates an "us vs. them" situation.
I may be well off base here - but to my mind there are clearly degrees of racism. I think the area that seems to be the most divisive is incidents like this where the people who don't deal with it day-in-day-out don't realise that it is a struggle to have a constant negative connotation attached to them because of the colour of their skin - and because it is hard to put yourself in the shoes of someone who does experience it, it is often seen as "making a mountain out of a molehill" and further expands the divide.
Is this particular incident racist? I would say that whoever came up with the idea to use a "negative" word like "tobacco" is most likely not racist. There was no harm intended. At worst you could say that they are guilty of a lack of understanding of the current national (international?) mood and feeling towards this subject.
But I would also say that this doesn't invalidate the feelings of anyone who was upset over this and it is not an over-reaction to an isolated incident, it is a reaction to many many similar incidents faced throughout their lives and we should be looking to change, and avoid these kinds of situations - but it takes time, probably generations, to remove the subliminal effect of living in a society that did, for a long time, see and perceive black people (or rather, non-whites) as something inferior, bad, less than. It is ingrained into our way of thinking - black means bad.
It is about teaching people, raising awareness (which this does), and over time it will die off. Sometimes we need to give each other a break and not be so defensive about it, there doesn't always have to be someone in the right and someone in the wrong - not everything is black and white (forgive the pun). Sometimes things just happen, you talk about it, learn from it, and move on - hopefully as a better person.
I may be well off base here - but to my mind there are clearly degrees of racism. I think the area that seems to be the most divisive is incidents like this where the people who don't deal with it day-in-day-out don't realise that it is a struggle to have a constant negative connotation attached to them because of the colour of their skin - and because it is hard to put yourself in the shoes of someone who does experience it, it is often seen as "making a mountain out of a molehill" and further expands the divide.
Is this particular incident racist? I would say that whoever came up with the idea to use a "negative" word like "tobacco" is most likely not racist. There was no harm intended. At worst you could say that they are guilty of a lack of understanding of the current national (international?) mood and feeling towards this subject.
But I would also say that this doesn't invalidate the feelings of anyone who was upset over this and it is not an over-reaction to an isolated incident, it is a reaction to many many similar incidents faced throughout their lives and we should be looking to change, and avoid these kinds of situations - but it takes time, probably generations, to remove the subliminal effect of living in a society that did, for a long time, see and perceive black people (or rather, non-whites) as something inferior, bad, less than. It is ingrained into our way of thinking - black means bad.
It is about teaching people, raising awareness (which this does), and over time it will die off. Sometimes we need to give each other a break and not be so defensive about it, there doesn't always have to be someone in the right and someone in the wrong - not everything is black and white (forgive the pun). Sometimes things just happen, you talk about it, learn from it, and move on - hopefully as a better person.
ThatFragranceGuy
Well-known member
surey that’s up to M&S to be upset about, it’s obviously not a major cost as I imagine they will just adjust the packaging at tbe next batch that gets produced, the cost will be a couple of hours resource for a PM and BA and a minor supplier change cost, which could even be built into the contract and there may have already been design changes in flight for the next season so cost is zero to minimal vs some goodwill.
As for the Twitter army, a quick search of the old tweets shows the outrage is Almost exclusively from white people threatening to go complaining that a tin of paint is called off-white, missing the point completely. Then there’s people saying they are offended by too many brown people in m&s’s advertising.
The Twitter army in this case appears to be white people, as per, outraged that people other than themselves are experiencing things they do not like.
Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret
Well-known member
Luke! Luke! Join with me on the dark side and we will rule the...sorry what? Really? Ok.
Luke! Luke! Join with me on the alternative side and we will rule the universe as father and son.
Luke! Luke! Join with me on the alternative side and we will rule the universe as father and son.
SmallTown
Well-known member
Not really no. You see a company get accused of racism, no matter if it’s false or true. If they don’t react immediately just check out the storm on Twitter and the #boycottxxxxx hashtag that’ll turn up
ThatFragranceGuy
Well-known member
yes really, yes. There’s no way in hell they just “react immediately” without thinking it through. There will be a full E2E decision making process which will involve senior decision makers and views will be taken from various departments as to impacts and costs.
If there was going to be an outrage there would be; yet as I said scroll through Twitter and it seems it’s white people that are upset by M&S rather than SJW’s baying for blood like your are implying.
The costs for M&S will be negligible
The time spent on it will be negligible
They had an inequality with how they label products, it’s not complicated. It’s similar to how Tesco had boys toys and girls toys, at the time people did the whole “PC gawn maaaad” lark as people are with this, but it’s right.
On its own tobacco is of course not inherently racist, but having the white shades as sweet deserts and the dark tone something that is almost globally shunned shows poor judgement/awareness and M&S have acknowledged that and made the change, cheaply and quickly and it seems to be a none issue apart from angry white folk feeling personally attacked.
SmallTown
Well-known member
You’re getting me confused with someone else. I’m not angry at all. I’m just concerned of the way there is this instant, damning reaction every time an allegation of racism is made.