Charlie Elphicke: Former Tory MP jailed for two years after being found guilty of three sexual assaults

Wiseman_Vaughn said:
Absolutely - It's the hypocrisy of it!! He can align himself with her right wing vioews but not the left wing views of Corbyn and Abbott
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Oh behave - he is not aligning himself with any of her views.
She is the one that has switched


Reasonable summary of events

www.theguardian.com

The Guardian view on MPs crossing the floor: a triumph of political theatre over substance | Editorial

Editorial: Natalie Elphicke is not a comfortable fit for Labour, but her defection is eloquent in expressing the decline of Rishi Sunak’s Tories
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
TeaCider said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1788555252393730415
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Hmm, this is yet another shrewd political move by Starmer. They were both well aware of this issue coming up, so first he addresses it privately with Elphicke. If she was unrepentent or not prepared to address it then we must assume she would not have been accepted.

But now it can highlight something Starmer personally has been very very good on in his career.
 
BlindBoyGrunt said:
This isn't something he could instigate and initiate, only accept. He may have been involved in the timing, but little more.
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They talk about Political defections from about 23.30. Listen to Campbell's story of Alan Howarth's defection and how carefully planned it was to gain maximum political effect and damage on the similarly mired Major Government.

 
I have a 2nd cousin or something on the Irish side of the Grandmother’s family.
He was a politician of sorts in a fairly brutal arena.
His advice was. “Doubt everything and trust no one”
But it would be interesting, given her record, how she votes…if she votes at all.
She’s not a member and never will be. The Labour backbenchers would lose it if was even mentioned. Just somewhere to sit for the next few months. She’s served her purpose.
According to the guy from the Daily Mirror on Politics Live today Labour are in talks with others to cross the floor. Not imminently.
 
Lefty said:
Hmm, this is yet another shrewd political move by Starmer. They were both well aware of this issue coming up, so first he addresses it privately with Elphicke. If she was unrepentent or not prepared to address it then we must assume she would not have been accepted.

But now it can highlight something Starmer personally has been very very good on in his career.
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It's taken a year and they still haven't sorted the Dianne Abbott case out. That must be far simpler to do.
 
BlindBoyGrunt said:
So he throws someone who has been a faithful Labour MP for 37 years under a bus and accepts somebody from the right of the Tory party who called her husband's victims liars, for optics? And you're celebrating this?
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You've chosen, quite deliberately I'm sure, the word 'celebrate'.

My answer to that is therefore a very definite 'No'.
 
Lefty said:
Hmm, this is yet another shrewd political move by Starmer. They were both well aware of this issue coming up, so first he addresses it privately with Elphicke. If she was unrepentent or not prepared to address it then we must assume she would not have been accepted.

But now it can highlight something Starmer personally has been very very good on in his career.
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So now we know the answer to my question earlier in the thread. Keir Starmer is better than any of the political journalists, Dover Conservative association members or Conservatives in the parliamentary party at holding Natalie to account.
 
BlindBoyGrunt said:
So he throws someone who has been a faithful Labour MP for 37 years under a bus and accepts somebody from the right of the Tory party who called her husband's victims liars, for optics?
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I think it is incredibly unfair on Abbott personally.

The problem is Corbyn and his LOTO team were so utterly inept at handling the antisemitism issue that it became a big thing in the public perception and for most uk jews in particular that Starmer had to act, decisively and without mercy for a lot of people in order to change public opinion and restore public confidence in the Labour Party that it was a welcoming place for Jewish people. He did that. Polling on that issue before Starmer took over and since show that.

Abbott was part of that inept team and is tainted. Then she carried on that ineptness with a stupid statement. She invited consequences. They are disproportionate in my opinion, but we are still in a very tricky period. You may have noticed the dreadful matters in Palestine keeping antisemitism prominent in the news. So Labour have a very difficult path to tread still.

I've seen Rayner and Cooper recently stating that they personally want to see her back, but it is a matter of procedure that neither they nor Starmer can interfere in. I'm sure that is technically true, but I'm also sure Starmer and his LOTO could nudge the speed either way, so my conclusion is they are pushing this back because they are concerned about the timing and optics of it. Politically, they are probably right on that. Abbott is a casualty of war.
 
Lefty said:
I think it is incredibly unfair on Abbott personally.

The problem is Corbyn and his LOTO team were so utterly inept at handling the antisemitism issue that it became a big thing in the public perception and for most uk jews in particular that Starmer had to act, decisively and without mercy for a lot of people in order to change public opinion and restore public confidence in the Labour Party that it was a welcoming place for Jewish people. He did that. Polling on that issue before Starmer took over and since show that.

Abbott was part of that inept team and is tainted. Then she carried on that ineptness with a stupid statement. She invited consequences. They are disproportionate in my opinion, but we are still in a very tricky period. You may have noticed the dreadful matters in Palestine keeping antisemitism prominent in the news. So Labour have a very difficult path to tread still.

I've seen Rayner and Cooper recently stating that they personally want to see her back, but it is a matter of procedure that neither they nor Starmer can interfere in. I'm sure that is technically true, but I'm also sure Starmer and his LOTO could nudge the speed either way, so my conclusion is they are pushing this back because they are concerned about the timing and optics of it. Politically, they are probably right on that. Abbott is a casualty of war.
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It was the NEC that ware failing to deal with that issue, and all the Jews that Starmer has suspended, ejected or investigated don't find it a welcoming party.
 
Lefty said:
I think it is incredibly unfair on Abbott personally.

The problem is Corbyn and his LOTO team were so utterly inept at handling the antisemitism issue that it became a big thing in the public perception and for most uk jews in particular that Starmer had to act, decisively and without mercy for a lot of people in order to change public opinion and restore public confidence in the Labour Party that it was a welcoming place for Jewish people. He did that. Polling on that issue before Starmer took over and since show that.

Abbott was part of that inept team and is tainted. Then she carried on that ineptness with a stupid statement. She invited consequences. They are disproportionate in my opinion, but we are still in a very tricky period. You may have noticed the dreadful matters in Palestine keeping antisemitism prominent in the news. So Labour have a very difficult path to tread still.

I've seen Rayner and Cooper recently stating that they personally want to see her back, but it is a matter of procedure that neither they nor Starmer can interfere in. I'm sure that is technically true, but I'm also sure Starmer and his LOTO could nudge the speed either way, so my conclusion is they are pushing this back because they are concerned about the timing and optics of it. Politically, they are probably right on that. Abbott is a casualty of war.
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"I've seen Rayner and Cooper recently stating that they personally want to see her back, but it is a matter of procedure that neither they nor Starmer can interfere in. I'm sure that is technically true" my depth of knowledge here is not great, but decoupling the Labour leaders office from the investigation process was one of the demands of the review of the anti-Semitism row IIRC. Any influence Starmer has would have to be whispered as there will be angry ex-Labour waiting to pounce on any procedural shenanigans. "Your independent process is going too slowly" is easy to defend, "we've got evidence you're making it go slowly" would undo all the hard yards gained.
 
Lefty said:
The problem is Corbyn and his LOTO team were so utterly inept at handling the antisemitism issue that it became a big thing in the public perception and for most uk jews in particular that Starmer had to act, decisively and without mercy for a lot of people in order to change public opinion and restore public confidence in the Labour Party that it was a welcoming place for Jewish people. He did that. Polling on that issue before Starmer took over and since show that.
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How can they have been inept at handling an issue that was manufactured and would never have been settled to anyone's satisfaction despite anything Corbyn or his office did. It became a big thing in the public's perception because it was force-fed via the media and the PLP on a daily basis.

With the addition of Mandelson and his “I work every single day to bring forward the end of [Corbyn’s] tenure in office.", plus the PLP undermining his leadership from day one. all we know is that the anti-Corbyn mob did enough to wreck Labour's chances in two elections and are now happily championing some of the very worst people in UK politics.

If Corbyn was so inept why didn't they give him enough rope to hang himself with?

Why did it take the coordinated efforts of so many to bring him down?
 
Scrote said:
How can they have been inept at handling an issue that was manufactured and would never have been settled to anyone's satisfaction despite anything Corbyn or his office did. It became a big thing in the public's perception because it was force-fed via the media and the PLP on a daily basis.

With the addition of Mandelson and his “I work every single day to bring forward the end of [Corbyn’s] tenure in office.", plus the PLP undermining his leadership from day one. all we know is that the anti-Corbyn mob did enough to wreck Labour's chances in two elections and are now happily championing some of the very worst people in UK politics.

If Corbyn was so inept why didn't they give him enough rope to hang himself with?

Why did it take the coordinated efforts of so many to bring him down?
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This is a really sensitive issue and you are right the cards were definitely against JC.
He could have been better tho.
Saying antisemitism was grossly overstated in the party was not a good move. Neither was saying terrorist organisations, who were openly anti semitic, were his friends’
It took a long time for him to apologise.

Leaders are human - they make mistakes.
For the reasons you say - his were amplified.
 
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