Carol Vorderman, a woman of conviction 👍

[Andy_W]

That doesn't sound right to me. I hope you're wrong

It doesn't sound right as it's contradictory, as well as implying that a fallacy has reversed direction.

Remainers will be allowed in, of course they will, but as much as I want it (as you well know), labour should not be being vocal about rejoining the EU. Or not doing anything which will allow the press to stir up the immigration race/ hate pot, whcih they're constantly trying to do.

Everyone with at least half a brain knows we need closer ties to the EU and less friction, and knows Labour and the Tories (if they want to win), will both have to push for better terms with the EU, yet neither will want to talk about it.

There may be signs Sunak is softening up by kicking cruella out, and bringing in "remainer Dave", so this will hopefully give Labour some leeway to soften up too. I said ages ago Sunak would soften up compared to the previous two clowns (to get centre votes), but wondered when the timing of that would be, looks like it's starting. It's like they've intentionally dug a trough to the floor with voter confidence, so they can start to climb up, odd tactic, but I do expect them to climb a bit.

 

[WJH.]

Everyone with at least half a brain knows we need closer ties to the EU and less friction, and knows Labour and the Tories (if they want to win), will both have to push for better terms with the EU, yet neither will want to talk about it.

There may be signs Sunak is softening up by kicking cruella out, and bringing in "remainer Dave", so this will hopefully give Labour some leeway to soften up too. I said ages ago Sunak would soften up compared to the previous two clowns (to get centre votes)

That's just not based on reality

Rejoiners have been played. There's no maneuvering from being against rejoining the EU/SM/CU and ruling out a return of FoM

It's very clear and permanent from Starmer

 

[Andy_W]

Honestly it's like reading something someone with a split personality has written and you're extremely childlike.
You've praised yourself for being correct about a future event that's still to happen. It's so weird

It's actually pointless trying to have a discussion with you as you are clearly haven't understood anything that happened and just don't have any knowledge on the subject

If you were actually able to understand that you're comparing Corbyn loosing with a second referendum policy with Starmer who has ruled out rejoining then you would realise they're not the same because you're unable to ackoledge the damage the peoples vote had

In mid 2020 I thought Labout now had a chance of winning again, and then re-affirmed in 2021 and 2022 I predicated Labour would win the GE, when they were well behind in the polls (and with bookies), which is the opposite of what you lot arguing with me (and the Corbyn lot) were saying. Who is most likely to be proven right? I seem to be doing ok, form a £100 and £50 bet respectively?





Corbyn lost 2016,17,19 and his successor lost to KS in 2020 they're all his/ their own doing, just like 2024/25 will be KS own doing. Labour were clutching at straws after the 2017 loss, and scrapping around for anything too late, policy wise, it all made zero difference. They should have been looking to change leader sooner. Eventually they got the picture, and the tactics now look solid to me, just need to ride it out a bit longer.

Do you want to re-join EU/ SM/ CU? If so when? You're the one talking about doing this more than anyone. If not, what do you want, you don't seem to like saying what you actually want, just what you don't?

I'm starting to think you're a Tory plant, just trying to stir up unrest and you mentioning the times article earlier was quite a big hint.

 

[WJH.]

In mid 2020 I thought Labout now had a chance of winning again, and then re-affirmed in 2021 and 2022 I predicated Labour would win the GE, when they were well behind in the polls (and with bookies), which is the opposite of what you lot arguing with me (and the Corbyn lot) were saying. Who is most likely to be proven right? I seem to be doing ok, form a £100 and £50 bet respectively?


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Corbyn lost 2016,17,19 and his successor lost to KS in 2020 they're all his/ their own doing, just like 2024/25 will be KS own doing. Labour were clutching at straws after the 2017 loss, and scrapping around for anything too late, policy wise, it all made zero difference. They should have been looking to change leader sooner. Eventually they got the picture, and the tactics now look solid to me, just need to ride it out a bit longer.

Do you want to re-join EU/ SM/ CU? If so when? You're the one talking about doing this more than anyone. If not, what do you want, you don't seem to like saying what you actually want, just what you don't?

I'm starting to think you're a Tory plant, just trying to stir up unrest and you mentioning the times article earlier was quite a big hint.

Andy you're replying to me about things I'm not discussing or have even said. It's frustrating

I predicted Labour would lose the general election if they backed a people's vote. So what

I'm a Tory plant and you're a massive Labour supporter who has no idea what Labour policies are... yeah that makes sense

You've literally gone from saying Corbyn wasn't politically machiavellian enough and said he wasn't ruthless enough to saying there's no way Labour right could have used the peoples vote and remainers to regain control of the party.

So no the Times article doesn't hint I'm a Tory. It was mentioned because you're wasting your time thinking the Labour right are going shift back to being pro EU

 

[SmallTown]

That's just not based on reality

Rejoiners have been played. There's no maneuvering from being against rejoining the EU/SM/CU and ruling out a return of FoM

It's very clear and permanent from Starmer

How is duppos8ng something that May happen "not based on reality"? Can you see into the future?

Everyone know brexit is a catastrophic failure. That's why sunak has had to ignore 350 gand picked culture war mps to get a remainer in. Surely it's only lógica KS and labour will have to sostenible their stance? Whybsupport something that is a clear diastor. I reckon the only reason KS is so bad on reversing brexit is that the Tories took an extermsit stance and he didn't want to go too far the other way. Now even the Tories have realised how bad it is surely he will roll back too?

 

[WJH.]

How is duppos8ng something that May happen "not based on reality"? Can you see into the future?

Everyone know brexit is a catastrophic failure. That's why sunak has had to ignore 350 gand picked culture war mps to get a remainer in. Surely it's only lógica KS and labour will have to sostenible their stance? Whybsupport something that is a clear diastor. I reckon the only reason KS is so bad on reversing brexit is that the Tories took an extermsit stance and he didn't want to go too far the other way. Now even the Tories have realised how bad it is surely he will roll back too?

Corbyn is a social democrat and believed in member led democracy. That's partly how Labour ended up agreeing to a second referendum

Ironically Starmer has been changing the party rules which means members/conference can vote but they're not binding and any rejoin attempts will be ignored.

It's ironic anyone would celebrate Corbyn being replaced by Starmer and being so pro EU

You're placing greater emphasis on unrelated events like "Cameron the remainer" coming back over the clear messaging from Labour about making Brexit work

 

[Scrote]

Should have been like shooting fish in a barrel

It wouldn't have changed the election mind, in 2017 as Tories would not have called it, had they not been secure enough.

Again, a direct contradiction in a single post.

Also, if you go back through posts you won't find a single leftist who didn't think Starmer would win the next GE. And that was before the Tory clusterfuck around Covid.

The whole point of the left being aggreived with Starmer is that he was (a) voted in by large numbers of them BECAUSE he pledged to be a continuity candidate, and (b) he didn't (and doesn't) need to chase after right-wing votes as the centre-right are very unlikely to vote Tory unless there is a massive sea-change in the political arena.

The only real attack from the left was asking where the guaranteed 20 point lead for anyone-but-corbyn was in the early polls.

 

[SmallTown]

Corbyn is a social democrat and believed in member led democracy. That's partly how Labour ended up agreeing to a second referendum

Ironically Starmer has been changing the party rules which means members/conference can vote but they're not binding and any rejoin attempts will be ignored.

It's ironic anyone would celebrate Corbyn being replaced by Starmer and being so pro EU

You're placing greater emphasis on unrelated events like "Cameron the remainer" coming back over the clear messaging from Labour about making Brexit work

The events aren't unrelated. And, yes or no, does it make sense to be a rejoin party now breixt has failed?

 

[Scrote]

And, yes or no, does it make sense to be a rejoin party now breixt has failed?

Brexit hasn't failed. People like you and Andy haven't believed enough. Or worked hard enough. Or whatever else the right wing media will throw at Labour as soon as they look like shifting position now they've made it clear what their position is.

The Tories will be allowed to pivot without consequence.

 

[spanishman]

Something for the champagne socialists....

Co-op and Aldi champagnes beat Veuve Clicquot in Which? taste test

Top-scoring supermarket fizz costs less than half of the price of its prestigious competitor

www.theguardian.com

 

[B_G]

I CV