the_dormouse
Well-known member
What about Peter Taylor not given half the credit he deserves.
Brian Clough
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Rishworthian
Well-known member
Peter Taylor brilliant keeper "in the air" and could throw accurately for "miles". Sadly low shots and headers were not dealt with as well.
He seemed to be the talent spotter - Clough got them to play
He seemed to be the talent spotter - Clough got them to play
indeedido
Well-known member
Miles better than Shankly.
To win the league with Derby and Forest is unbelievable. To win back to back European Cups at Forest just incredible.
Lots of league cups and days that medium sized clubs could only ever dream of.
Shankly never won the European Cup.
HolgateCorner
Well-known member
Clough surely up there with the all time football greats.
His playing career was under the radar because he only played for north east clubs but a poster who saw him above agrees with my Dad who watched the Boro from the 1930’s through to 2010 said Clough was the best striker he had seen playing for anyone.
As manager, what he did with Derby and Forest was just off the scale, possibly Ferguson at Aberdeen or Ranieri at Leicester entered that high achievement zone for a short while but Clough did it twice and playing good football as well, unbelievable really.
The likes of Guardiola and co are nowhere near.
His playing career was under the radar because he only played for north east clubs but a poster who saw him above agrees with my Dad who watched the Boro from the 1930’s through to 2010 said Clough was the best striker he had seen playing for anyone.
As manager, what he did with Derby and Forest was just off the scale, possibly Ferguson at Aberdeen or Ranieri at Leicester entered that high achievement zone for a short while but Clough did it twice and playing good football as well, unbelievable really.
The likes of Guardiola and co are nowhere near.
Norman_Conquest
Well-known member
When Shankly took over at Liverpool they had been languishing is the second division for five years and truthfully, no better than Forest or Derby. Shankly turned the club around from top to bottom and built the foundations for what Liverpool are today.
Without Shankly, Liverpool would/could have been another average club.
Rishworthian
Well-known member
In fact Liverpool were relegated with us at the end of 1953/54
HolgateCorner
Well-known member
Didn’t I read somewhere that Shankly rated Middlesbrough very highly as a club including the supporters?
I was only a kid when Shankly was in his hey day at Liverpool but he always came across as a warm, humble and decent bloke, no wonder he could motivate his players.
Norman_Conquest
Well-known member
I know there was a rumour going about that he had applied for the Boro job before he went to Liverpool but I personally feel that is just another urban myth. I could be wrong.
Corcaigh_the_Cat
Well-known member
No. Liverpool were a big, and successful club, prior to Shankly taking over. They'd won the league 5 times before he took over, the last time was in the previous decade.
Derby and Forest won their first titles under Clough, and neither were in a pretty state when he took over.
Look at Derby and Forest since he left, look at Liverpool since Shankly left. Clough's been the bigger miss, and won the bigger prize, twice.
Norman_Conquest
Well-known member
I never said they didn't have history but they were stuck in an awful rut and were badly run before Shankly took over - 1947 was the last time they had won the league and had spent five seasons in the second division when Shankly took over in 1959. He won the Second Division in 1961/62 season and then won the First division in 1963/64 and the FA Cup in 1964/65. He added a few more titles, domestic cups and European.
Cloughy did an exceptional job at Forest but the majority of his work was on the pitch. Shankly created a legacy.
Corcaigh_the_Cat
Well-known member
5 years is nothing in a club's history, and 12 years since winning a title means they were in a temporary lull. They were already a big club.
Shankley's 'legacy' carried on because one of his backroom staff, with a better footballing head on him, took over. And after that the third of the four took over. They were with him from the start. It didn't take long to go to pot after that.
Legacy ffs
Norman_Conquest
Well-known member
I think we will just have to disagree on this but without Shankley it would have been easy for Liverpool to become a Newcastle or a Sunderland. Both have history and won trophies in the era you are talking about but have gotten it wrong ever since.
Don’t get me wrong, I think Clough was a brilliant manager, underestimated by many and should have been given the England job. I just don’t think he had the impact on Forest or Derby that Shankly had on Liverpool.
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Hap
Well-known member
It’s in his (Stephen Kelly) biography. He applied for the job, and said he was disappointed not to get it. Middlesbrough being a footballing town.
I can’t remember for sure, but I think that was probably when he was at Workingon, struggling in Div3 North, Boro opting for Bob Dennison who was at doing better at Northampton in Div 3 South - almost getting them up that season.
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