Boro "ins" and "outs" since 2019. Frightening (!) .....

[newyddion]

"Our loan signings on the whole have been amongst the best in the league. Each season tells a story and not one of them lacks ambition or investment beyond our means and stature."

Really?

Nmecha, Kebano, Balogun.. to name just a few. Who competes for them? What clubs do they go to? Top six? Bottom six?

Does the £10m signing of Braithwaite really back up your idea that we are not backed, supported, we don’t show ambition ect.

It’s laughable!! Geordie-esque!!

 

[r00fie1]

Nmecha, Kebano, Balogun.. to name just a few. Who competes for them? What clubs do they go to? Top six? Bottom six?

Does the £10m signing of Braithwaite really back up your idea that we are not backed, supported, we don’t show ambition ect.

It’s laughable!! Geordie-esque!!

I havent mentioned we are not "backed" nor "dont show ambition", but if thats what you think.....then feel free to carry on.
You can "show ambition" by signing players, but they include the likes of Connoly, Balogun, Clarke , Mowett, Ravell Morrison, Sammy Ameobi, et al
Some of our recent loan players have been dreadful.
But its not just about loanees - its about the general trend since we came out of the Premiership.
Thats why I started the thread with "Just take a look at these stats* and see what you think."
Its an open question.
There is no "right" or "wrong" answers.
We will leave it there.

 

[zzzzz]

Winge winge winge.
Just gets so predictably tedious.

 

[newyddion]

I havent mentioned we are not "backed" nor "dont show ambition", but if thats what you think.....then feel free to carry on.
You can "show ambition" by signing players, but they include the likes of Connoly, Balogun, Clarke , Mowett, Ravell Morrison, Sammy Ameobi, et al
Some of our recent loan players have been dreadful.
But its not just about loanees - its about the general trend since we came out of the Premiership.
Thats why I started the thread with "Just take a look at these stats* and see what you think."
Its an open question.
There is no "right" or "wrong" answers.
We will leave it there.

The general trend of us not being a premier league club? Similar to our better funded football peers.

The post(s) appear to show a negative view on the club based on the fact we’re not in the premier league.. even though we haven’t been in the top division before as the graphs show. Ups and downs.

Then the idea that having a large turnover of players is the reason for our demise (which is not really a decline at all) a change in league sees a turnover in players.. which shows ambition.

I don’t understand this insane idea of retaining the same players and same manager will somehow result in a greater success than we have achieved in recent years.

It’s just like random hot air to blow that has no substance behind it. Players are rubbish after we’ve signed them and we don’t produce, we need to get rid!! Unless we get rid and then they turn out to get good.. then we should have kept them!!

This is not an intelligent debate.. it’s a pointless fart. we will leave it there.

 

[MVBoro]

I think it just goes to show how far the club have fallen. I genuinely thought things were finally getting better when Wilder was leaving appointment and he got us playing good stuff and decent results. However this disintegrated at record speed and we are now in a right mess with no obvious way forward. Can’t see things improving unless Carrick is something really special!

 

[BoroMart]

Thing is moneyball is 20 years out of date

I was reading about Burnley who are using artificial intelligence and stats across Europe and if you look at their side last season it was pretty much all British and managed by Dyche

Within a season they have transformed their recruitment and have an (almost) entirely new squad of players from all over the world who they have identified and put in place a rookie manager in Kompany

Now they’re 3rd with a game in hand

They've got 2 1/2 times the income of the other teams, they should be in the top 3, that isn't a vindication of their scouting network yet

 

[norfolkngood]

Anybody can make a list of the players we have had in and out and say isn't it long.
Until you compare it with every other club in h Championship nobody can give you an answer, because nobody knows the definition of long.

I can't understand why some of you posters don't just give up and get a hobby. I know I would if I was as upset as you all seem to be.
Always winging about the club and lack of ambition. I don't see any of you suggesting that you buy Gibson out and let him save his money.

Boro are, and always have been a second tier team, and I say that after 60 years of attendance. Their average position since formation and entry to the league is 28th. So at the moment they are 13 places below their natural position, but there's no reason why that can't be improved on before the end of the season.

The bad news is that if we have an average season we will only finish 8th, and as we know we will miss out on the play offs.
Missed out again. It'll be just like having Charlie Amer back.

 

[newyddion]

Anybody can make a list of the players we have had in and out and say isn't it long.
Until you compare it with every other club in h Championship nobody can give you an answer, because nobody knows the definition of long.

I can't understand why some of you posters don't just give up and get a hobby. I know I would if I was as upset as you all seem to be.
Always winging about the club and lack of ambition. I don't see any of you suggesting that you buy Gibson out and let him save his money.

Boro are, and always have been a second tier team, and I say that after 60 years of attendance. Their average position since formation and entry to the league is 28th. So at the moment they are 13 places below their natural position, but there's no reason why that can't be improved on before the end of the season.

The bad news is that if we have an average season we will only finish 8th, and as we know we will miss out on the play offs.
Missed out again. It'll be just like having Charlie Amer back.

Swings and Roundabouts innit!

 

[indeedido]

Anybody can make a list of the players we have had in and out and say isn't it long.
Until you compare it with every other club in h Championship nobody can give you an answer, because nobody knows the definition of long.

I can't understand why some of you posters don't just give up and get a hobby. I know I would if I was as upset as you all seem to be.
Always winging about the club and lack of ambition. I don't see any of you suggesting that you buy Gibson out and let him save his money.

Boro are, and always have been a second tier team, and I say that after 60 years of attendance. Their average position since formation and entry to the league is 28th. So at the moment they are 13 places below their natural position, but there's no reason why that can't be improved on before the end of the season.

The bad news is that if we have an average season we will only finish 8th, and as we know we will miss out on the play offs.
Missed out again. It'll be just like having Charlie Amer back.

I don't know where you get your figures from.

We have played 2441 top flight matches, only 17 clubs have played more.
We have played 62 top flight seasons, only 19 clubs have played more.
27.1m people have watched us in the top flight, only 16 have had more.
Our average league crowd across all seasons has been 19,875, only 15 clubs average higher.
We've only played 49 seasons in the second tier, having played 333 more matches in the top flight.
Learn to use the attached table.

So other than that, you must be right.

All time tables

 

[Expat Smoggie]

I’m sure the likes of Walmart or Gregg’s have better consistency in their staff than we do with ours.

We all know that we lack a plan and perhaps funds but regardless of the situation we need stability for next few seasons so the new management needs to implement this first before anything else.

I could see from the outset of last season that CW was going to do down the path of another clearout, not that was wrong but having so many players going in and out at the same time just isn’t good for cohesion and perhaps morale.

Now we have another newbie coming in so it’ll be another act on the jugular come next summer, especially as we have the loaners and the players who entering the final year of their contracts.

I’m sure we’ll see six or seven new bodies coming in during the summer, with question marks over Howson, Bola, Djksteel and maybe Hoppe and Akpom that list could expand to 11– crazy.

Gibson needs to get some stability and a plan in place or else we’ll never get out of this place we’re in.

 

[newyddion]

I’m sure the likes of Walmart or Gregg’s have better consistency in their staff than we do with ours.

We all know that we lack a plan and perhaps funds but regardless of the situation we need stability for next few seasons so the new management needs to implement this first before anything else.

I could see from the outset of last season that CW was going to do down the path of another clearout, not that was wrong but having so many players going in and out at the same time just isn’t good for cohesion and perhaps morale.

Now we have another newbie coming in so it’ll be another act on the jugular come next summer, especially as we have the loaners and the players who entering the final year of their contracts.

I’m sure we’ll see six or seven new bodies coming in during the summer, with question marks over Howson, Bola, Djksteel and maybe Hoppe and Akpom that list could expand to 11– crazy.

Gibson needs to get some stability and a plan in place or else we’ll never get out of this place we’re in.

We could easily see another 11 bewenn now and the start of next season

 

[r00fie1]

Anybody can make a list of the players we have had in and out and say isn't it long.
Until you compare it with every other club in h Championship nobody can give you an answer, because nobody knows the definition of long.

I can't understand why some of you posters don't just give up and get a hobby. I know I would if I was as upset as you all seem to be.
Always winging about the club and lack of ambition. I don't see any of you suggesting that you buy Gibson out and let him save his money.

Boro are, and always have been a second tier team, and I say that after 60 years of attendance. Their average position since formation and entry to the league is 28th. So at the moment they are 13 places below their natural position, but there's no reason why that can't be improved on before the end of the season.

The bad news is that if we have an average season we will only finish 8th, and as we know we will miss out on the play offs.
Missed out again. It'll be just like having Charlie Amer back.

The statistics are published for anyone who cares to analyse them.
The post is facilitated to enable discussion - certainly not to be deliberately "negative", questioning the Chairman, or otherwise. People can draw their own conclusions.

Quote OP: "Just take a look at these stats* and see what you think.
For me, its raises many questions - particularly about recruitment [?!!] and inconsistency."

Really interested to look at these stats you`ve quoted:
"Their average position since formation and entry to the league is 28th. So at the moment they are 13 places below their natural position..."

You may find the published verified statistics interesting:

https://www.worldfootball.net/teams/middlesbrough-fc/2021/6/

 

[Corcaigh_the_Cat]

It's been used around 1 year and you have already written off it's long term sustainability

Like I said I only read one article but clearly scouting has progressed from the system of an endless revolving door

I haven't condemned any particular scheme, I'm looking at the list of transfers in and out over 6 years or so and asking why?

 

[JM14]

Anybody can make a list of the players we have had in and out and say isn't it long.
Until you compare it with every other club in h Championship nobody can give you an answer, because nobody knows the definition of long.

I can't understand why some of you posters don't just give up and get a hobby. I know I would if I was as upset as you all seem to be.
Always winging about the club and lack of ambition. I don't see any of you suggesting that you buy Gibson out and let him save his money.

that’s one of the more bizarre arguments I have seen on here, by that logic I hope you won’t be criticising any of our players unless you’re willing to stick some boots on and have a go up front yourself

 

[JM14]

Beats reading the Sunday Morning papers:


2015 / 16

View attachment 46296
View attachment 46297

2016 / 17
View attachment 46298
View attachment 46299

2017 / 18
View attachment 46300
View attachment 46301

2018 / 19
View attachment 46302
View attachment 46303

That’s exactly the argument I have been making recently, clubs like ours can’t afford these huge changes every season, look at the sides that have done well on a budget and they have had continuity

Even more worrying I was just having a look through recent signings and from our 20 most expensive signings in the last 10 years we have only actually made profit on 3/4 of them with some huge losses along the way with fees plus wages. That alone tells you why the club is in this position

 

[Steve Bee]

We sell players then use the money to pay off the outgoing manager and his team of coaches. We fund all this through our sky high ticket prices. It's mad isn't it? And do we ever see coaching going on, players getting better, juniors coming through? Do we hell.

 

[norfolkngood]

I don't know where you get your figures from.

We have played 2441 top flight matches, only 17 clubs have played more.
We have played 62 top flight seasons, only 19 clubs have played more.
27.1m people have watched us in the top flight, only 16 have had more.
Our average league crowd across all seasons has been 19,875, only 15 clubs average higher.
We've only played 49 seasons in the second tier, having played 333 more matches in the top flight.
Learn to use the attached table.

So other than that, you must be right.

All time tables

My apologies. we were better than I thought. 27th not 28th.
If you're going to quote facts, quote real ones.
The only person you fool otherwise is yourself.

Do it for real, not just top division

 

[indeedido]

My apologies. we were better than I thought. 27th not 28th.
If you're going to quote facts, quote real ones.
The only person you fool otherwise is yourself.

Do it for real, not just top division

You aren't the brightest are you.
What you have linked ranks the clubs based on the number of wins in their history, whatever league they were in.
So according to you PNE are actually 7th, to our 27th; but you can't grasp that this is because they are a founder member of the league, have played mostly outside the top flight and done well in the lower leagues they've played in.
We have played over 700 more matches in the top flight than PNE, despite them being formed before us and way before we entered the league structure.
They've won 226 matches more than us in league history.
They've won 97 in the 4th tier - a league we've not played in.
They've won 409 to our 51 in the third tier where we've only had 2 seasons.
Do you see the flaw in your 27th ranking yet??????

What I posted were facts.
We have played 2441 top flight matches, only 17 clubs have played more.
We have played 62 top flight seasons, only 19 clubs have played more.
27.1m people have watched us in the top flight, only 16 have had more.
Our average league crowd across all seasons has been 19,875, only 15 clubs average higher.
We've only played 49 seasons in the second tier, having played 333 more matches in the top flight.
Learn to use the attached table.

 

[norfolkngood]

The only problem with the table you are using is that it suggests that Newcastle, Sunderland and Leeds are better than us, which you know can't possibly be true. At least using my rationale Leeds come out worse.

Like I said before, the only person you are fooling is yourself.

 

[indeedido]

The only problem with the table you are using is that it suggests that Newcastle, Sunderland and Leeds are better than us, which you know can't possibly be true. At least using my rationale Leeds come out worse.

Like I said before, the only person you are fooling is yourself.

There's only one fool on this theme, but good to see you are living your username.