Are we turning the Ukrainian people into targets?

NYboro said:
I'm not sure that's even a name for it, but it's a long way from democratic and it's getting worse not better with the redrawing of constituencies.
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I don't disagree with anything you say. Except, of course, by definition it's a democracy.
 
Laughing said:
I don't disagree with anything you say. Except, of course, by definition it's a democracy.
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Democracy can loosely be defined as government by the people. When 58% of the people did not vote for the ruling party, it is safe to say it is not democratic.
 
Subbuteo_171 said:
Firstly, I’m not upset in the slightest. Please don’t lie.

Secondly, your (note correct use of your) the word “must” is important. This is supposition, not fact. So we agree this is purely your opinion, as if it was fact then you‘d have stated “has”.

Third - you appear to be getting very angry, using deflection and refusing to engage. A number of micro-aggressions in your post indicate this. I also note you refer to a “full scaled“ invasion.

I’ll ask again;

When did Putin decide Ukraine should be brought back under Russian control?
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I’m not angry at all mate. I stated an opinion and a lot of people used this to insult me, without being able to refute what I had said. Look, I get it, it’s the way of things in here: state a bad side effect of Brexit and people will lose their mind. They’ll go crazy with the insults yet very light with the arguments. It’s the problem with Brexiteers. They know it’s a disaster so when someone points it out all they can do is attack that person with impotent rage
 
Sadly, world war 3 is a step closer today after the latest news regarding the evil Russian despot
 
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No that is exactly what democracy is.

As it translates from the Greek as rule of the mob.

Demos - mob or crowd ( it’s the same as demonstrate )

Cracy - rule of or rule by.

So FPTP is exactly what democracy is.
 
Just a quick reminder as to what this thread is about:
MolteniArcore said:
Was listening to LBC earlier and a caller made a point I had not considered before.

He said that ultimately Russia will take Ukraine and it's obvious that all The West are prepared to do is supply them with weapons. These weapons make the fight longer and increase the ferocity of Russian aggression. This in turn will cause far greater Ukrainian deaths.

I don't necessarily agree but I can see the point he is making which brings me to the main question that non of us know the answer to: What is The West's end game?

- If Russia take Ukraine do we fund the forces fighting to take it back?
- Do we accept it and keep sanctions on Russia?
- Do we go in and help?
- Do we enforce a no fly zone?

Am I daft for thinking that this might be another conflict where we have no idea what our plan or end game is? And in the meantime we are letting the Ukrainians be cannon fodder for the Russians? And if this is right should we go in now?

I think maybe the biggest question we are trying to decide is would Putin launch an attack on NATO if we got involved. If we think that's no we'd surely be in by now. And maybe that's what we are afraid of and that's why we are say back watching the Ukrainians die as they fight for their country. jesus, we won't even let them into our country as refugees.

Maybe Putin counted on this and knew we wouldn't get involved. After all sanctions aren't stopping him.
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MolteniArcore said:
Just a quick reminder as to what this thread is about:
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I’m sure Putin did count on this, he knows the power of even the threat of nuclear weapons.

When he even makes reference to nukes there is palpable anxiety in this country and others.

We can’t go there and he knows it.

The line in the sand is NATO territory and I desperately hope he doesn’t go there.
 
DrummerMan said:
For too long we've let Russia get away with all sorts...

We've been weak in the past and tried to please them - that hasn't worked, so like every bully eventually learns, one day their victim will start fighting back
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I think they're already learning that in Ukraine tbh.
 
Subbuteo_171 said:
Ah, so it’s an opinion. Not a fact. Further progress.

Despite several polite requests you still haven’t answered the question. You, me, everyone knows why.

I voted remain in 2016. I didn’t vote Tory.

Maybe if you started with “in my opinion….” you wouldn’t get such a response. But as you do it on so many threads, it’s clearly something you enjoy doing - trying to belittle people because you think they are less intelligent than you because they voted for Brexit. And worse, telling them they are responsible for Putin attacking Ukraine and killing its civilians.

Anyway, I know this won’t change anything. Your point has been destroyed, you’ll claim it hasn’t, you’ll accuse me and others of lying and insulting you. Pointless carrying on, you appear to be incapable of rational debate.
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My point hasn't been destroyed. I'm not sure why you think it has? You've tried once, but in that instance you literally made up lies about what I was saying the were entirely unconnected to what I actually said. So a couple of quesitons for you: Why are you asking me to answer to the mind of a dictator? and what relevance has it to what I have said?

To re itirate:

1 Brexit has isolated Britain from the world and especially form the EU
2 Russians interfered in the brexit vote to help with this isolation
3 This has helped embolden Putin as he knows one of the countries that said it would defend Ukraine in the Budapest memorandum is powerless to do so (see 1)

I haven't seen anyone refute these comments at all: You seem to be having a separate conversation and seem to think this answers my above points. It doesn't
 
SmallTown said:
My point hasn't been destroyed. I'm not sure why you think it has? You've tried once, but in that instance you literally made up lies about what I was saying the were entirely unconnected to what I actually said. So a couple of quesitons for you: Why are you asking me to answer to the mind of a dictator? and what relevance has it to what I have said?

To re itirate:

1 Brexit has isolated Britain from the world and especially form the EU
2 Russians interfered in the brexit vote to help with this isolation
3 This has helped embolden Putin as he knows one of the countries that said it would defend Ukraine in the Budapest memorandum is powerless to do so (see 1)

I haven't seen anyone refute these comments at all: You seem to be having a separate conversation and seem to think this answers my above points. It doesn't
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You seem incapable of grasping what the criticism of you is really about.

I can accept that the 3 points you make are a valid opinion.

However please explain why you think this makes Brexit voters complicit in what is happening in Ukraine.
 
Millbrook said:
You seem incapable of grasping what the criticism of you is really about.

I can accept that the 3 points you make are a valid opinion.

However please explain why you think this makes Brexit voters complicit in what is happening in Ukraine.
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Because they caused point 1
 
Subbuteo_171 said:
Told you.

I've made up lies apparently.

And he wonders why he gets pelters.

Please sort this obnoxious cretin out admin.

Yes, it is an insult, no its not an opinion, its fact.
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Rather than insult:

I stand by this:

1 Brexit has isolated Britain from the world and especially form the EU
2 Russians interfered in the brexit vote to help with this isolation
3 This has helped embolden Putin as he knows one of the countries that said it would defend Ukraine in the Budapest memorandum is powerless to do so (see 1)

Can refute any of those points?
 
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