Another actual brexit benefit

SmallTown said:
It's not bizarre at all but I'll break it down for you: Brexit will cause a long term contraction of the economy. This contraction will disproportionately affect people from poorer areas. You support brexit and have defended this contraction.
Therefore you support poorer areas struggling.

Not a look I would go for to be honest, especially not on a website from one of the less economically strong parts of the country. But hey, if you want people to struggle then fine.
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More deflections, you should change your name to IR35, Or Tory taxbreak.£££'s,
 
Lefty said:
If people voted because they have a political team, which I am quite aware happens, then that is NOT adopting the same best practice decision making process that we usually apply to the important decisions we make in our personal life.

Or do you disagree with that?

'Many voted remain as the devil they knew, without understanding the ramifications.'

Yes, they did.

'People are free to vote how they choose.....'

Of course they are

'.........without others attacking them for it.'

No. But you use the word 'attack' which it can and has developed into, but is misleading as to what is really going on. People are free to assess the reasons other people made the choice they made and judge them for it. If someone made a stupid decision, the fact that they were free to make that decision does not in of itself mean that it was not a stupid one. They don't get a free pass on that just because it was their right to be stupid.

I make stupid decisions all the time. I don't look back on them and say 'well, since no-one was holding a gun to my head it was a free decision, therefore by default that makes it an intelligent or correct one'.

What I do is I own my mistake. First and foremost. Well, hopefully. Sometimes I refuse to accept I could possibly have made a mistake, because I'm great me. But when I'm not being an arrogant Peter Perfect, then I look at it and try to understand why I made that mistake. What did I get wrong? What didn't I do, what could I have done?

For instance, I might ask was it an error in collecting the information that was available to me. Could I have gather more information that would have left me better informed to make an evaluation? Or was I too lazy to do that? Did I trust to luck? Did I only consider opinions or information I wanted to believe?

Was the error not that I didn't gather sufficient information, but that I didn't evaluate the information properly? That is a different failure.

Did I gather sufficient information, did I evaluate it correctly, but did I make an error in predicting the likely outcome? That is yet another type of failure.

That we all do those things makes us human. It doesn't mean we aren't stupid. At least to some degree. You can use a different word if you like. Lazy might be more appropriate if that is what you were. Is being too lazy to gather all the information you need to make the best decision an intelligent thing to do, or is it just a little bit stupid? There are more appropriate words for every type of failure in the decision making process, but I've looked for the one word that can be applied to all the failures and unfortunately, since everyone puts their own especially pejorative definition on the word setting backs, the only one that manages a one size fits all description is 'stupidity'. Lazy doesn't work for someone who gathered lots of information but didn't evaluate it very well, or misunderstood the consequences of the solution they went for.

'And finally, most people realise it has been implemented badly..'

It has, but it became fairly obvious to those who understood the issues that it was always going to be difficult and would lead to problems, because Brexit, as promised, was an undeliverable pipe dream. It also became very apparent early on that these people who had advocated and persuaded people to vote for this, were ignorant, lazy and incompetent at anything other than telling people what they wanted to hear.

'....and probably don't feel the need to apologise and nor should they. This idea that a cast vote needs to be explained is just nonsense. Some may believe they are owed an explanation, they aren't.'

I don't fully agree with this, but maybe I will return to this at a later time.
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I don't disagree with most of that lefty.

The right to hold the electorate to account is wrong. We don't have that right, that is why it is a secret ballot. You might argue that if you publicise that viewpoint you loose the right to be held to account. I wouldn't agree with that.

It forms the cornerstone of a democracy. You should be able to vote tory or indeed leave without being attacked for it, however much I disagree with that choice.

My issue is with the name calling that gets aimed at people who voted leave. It is done without any knowledge of the person. It was their right to do so, and the minute the name calling starts, any meaningful debate is done.

It seems to me that some folks want to vent and use the anonymity of a message board to do so.

Furthermore, a lot of opinions on these boards are poorly researched, or indeed not at all, on both sides, which doesn't help the debate.

An example of that would be using an estimated 4% contraction n the GDP in the way it has been used. A simple calculation would say that people in the UK will be, on average 4% worse off. If the population drops by 4%, then largely it's as you were. Now I don't know if there has been a reduction in our population post brexit, but the shortage of workforce would suggest that it has. How much has the population contracted, if at all? I don't know, but I can guarantee that people using it as a bare figure haven't bothered looking either, because that doesn't suite the argument.

Shipping pigs for butchery to the EU is a ridiculous state to be in, that is a direct downside of brexit and it wasn't necessary. Not having the workforce to keep the country running is a huge downside and will hit the economy is another downside.

The arguments on this board about brexit are circular and people defend their position regardless of evidence to the contrary, then it descends into name calling.

Reserving the right to call someone you don't know, thick or racist or a sociopath or a scumbag is ridiculous and childish.
 
A noticeable reduction in fireworks going off every 5 minutes running up to bonfire night. That’s a welcome brexit benefit for pet owners.
 
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It seems some in this country are only happy with a democracy when it suits whichever way they've voted. Otherwise they'd be much happier with a dictatorship privately.
 
Randy said:
It seems some in this country are only happy with a democracy when it suits whichever way they've voted. Otherwise they'd be much happier with a dictatorship privately.
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I think that is largely true of us all Randy, to one extent or another.
 
SmallTown said:
Is THAT a brexit benefit? You're happy to attempt to deflect and decry from some of the brexit failures. Less happy to inform us as to why it's worth suffering them.
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What are you on about? My post about any shortages? What has that got to do with any opinions on brexit benefits, of which I have no opinion on pros or cons.
 
Kosovo said:
A noticeable reduction in fireworks going off every 5 minutes running up to bonfire night. That’s a welcome brexit benefit for pet owners.
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If that's down to Brexit then I'll take that, it seems more logical than most Brexit "benefits"!
 
I have never understood why anyone s allowed to buy fireworks, outside of certified experts. Seems insanity to me.
 
SmallTown said:
That wasn't a deflection it was a statement of fact. Funny you think I'm deflecting from your deflection.

Why do you want the poorer parts of the country to suffer?
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I don't, that's why I was happy to have my NI increased to help the NHS, it's people like you looking to play the system through IR35 and going ltd company to avoid P.A.Y.E tax that are the problem, putting your car on PCB through the company to avoid taxes, was it a four year hand me back deal,they are the most popular. A new low claiming concern about others whilst avoiding tax. .👀
 
Ex pfc wintergreen said:
I don't, that's why I was happy to have my NI increased to help the NHS, it's people like you looking to play the system through IR35 and going ltd company to avoid P.A.Y.E tax that are the problem, putting your car on PCB through the company to avoid taxes, was it a four year hand me back deal,they are the most popular. A new low claiming concern about others whilst avoiding tax. .👀
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Confused you support brexit. Even though you know its going to cause a long term decline of the economy.
Ergo you want the poor to suffer. It may not be the reason you voted brexit but the fact you support it now shows you think your "reason" is more important then poor people struggling with less money.

Still as you said before. You think you're alright Jack so you just don't care I guess. Shameful really.
 
SmallTown said:
Confused you support brexit. Even though you know its going to cause a long term decline of the economy.
Ergo you want the poor to suffer. It may not be the reason you voted brexit but the fact you support it now shows you think your "reason" is more important then poor people struggling with less money.

Still as you said before. You think you're alright Jack so you just don't care I guess. Shameful really.
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Mr IR35 handing out morality lessons, tax dodger.
 
Ex pfc wintergreen said:
Mr IR35 handing out morality lessons, tax dodger.
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You should be ashamed of yourself. The constant personal attacks can't really hide you wanting the poor to suffer.

You might think pretending to attack me is working but you have to live with wanting our economy to fail. You're an embarrassment
 
I think someone voting for something which will crash the economy and avoid being part of the EU's clamp down on tax avoidance is worse than a single person abiding by UK tax laws and voting remain which would have been part of the EU trying to clamp down on tax avoidance.
 
SmallTown said:
You should be ashamed of yourself. The constant personal attacks can't really hide you wanting the poor to suffer.

You might think pretending to attack me is working but you have to live with wanting our economy to fail. You're an embarrassment
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I never wanted our economy to fail, you however set out to deliberately vote for the party that would allow you to tax dodge. In it for yourself, and now it’s gone wrong you are trying to distance yourself from it by deflecting on brexit. Your greed has been your downfall tax dodger.
 
Ex pfc wintergreen said:
I never wanted our economy to fail, you however set out to deliberately vote for the party that would allow you to tax dodge. In it for yourself, and now it’s gone wrong you are trying to distance yourself from it by deflecting on brexit. Your greed has been your downfall tax dodger.
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The IR35 thing was enforced by the current government that lets big companies like Starbucks off tax - "Starbucks's UK arm paid £1.9m in UK corporation tax in the 2019 tax year, and £4m in 2018. ... Starbucks Corporation, the US parent company, made profits before tax of $1.16bn (£830m) in the year to 27 September 2020". Whos the tax dodger here?!

Instead the government goes after the small business people or freelancers like myself. Another Tory policy that squeezes people. Luckily I'm not under IR35 as I do 2 jobs for 2 different companies so still have a Ltd company.

This issue also added to the lorry driver fuel issues recently - Lorry driver crisis
 
Flood said:
The IR35 thing was enforced by the current government that lets big companies like Starbucks off tax - "Starbucks's UK arm paid £1.9m in UK corporation tax in the 2019 tax year, and £4m in 2018. ... Starbucks Corporation, the US parent company, made profits before tax of $1.16bn (£830m) in the year to 27 September 2020". Whos the tax dodger here?!

Instead the government goes after the small business people or freelancers like myself. Another Tory policy that squeezes people. Luckily I'm not under IR35 as I do 2 jobs for 2 different companies so still have a Ltd company.

This issue also added to the lorry driver fuel issues recently - Lorry driver crisis
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They’re all tax dodgers, that’s my point.
 
Ex pfc wintergreen said:
I don't, that's why I was happy to have my NI increased to help the NHS, it's people like you looking to play the system through IR35 and going ltd company to avoid P.A.Y.E tax that are the problem, putting your car on PCB through the company to avoid taxes, was it a four year hand me back deal,they are the most popular. A new low claiming concern about others whilst avoiding tax. .👀
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You really are a nasty piece of work.
 
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